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Tech Used to Be Bleeding Edge, Now it’s Just Bleeding | After a decade of scandals and half-assed product launches, people are no longer buying the future Big Tech is selling.

Tech Used to Be Bleeding Edge, Now it’s Just Bleeding | After a decade of scandals and half-assed product launches, people are no longer buying the future Big Tech is selling.::After a decade of scandals and half-assed product launches, people are no longer buying the future Big Tech is selling.

gnygnygny ,

Price are rocket high and salary still the same. Added on that vapor tech products. It is not surprising that the tech rush is over.

kerrigan778 ,

We're broke you assholes! We can't give you money for gadgets with money we don't have!

spyd3r ,
@spyd3r@sh.itjust.works avatar

Somewhere along the line they went from creating goods and services that people could use to improve their lives, to dreaming up some dystopian futuristic bullshit, then using their control over technology, governments, and media to make that dream a reality.

IchNichtenLichten , (edited )
@IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

We went from, "here's some cool tech we built, you should buy it because it's awesome and we'll make some money" to "how do we screw every last cent out of our customers whilst providing the bare minimum?"

AWittyUsername ,

While sterling all their data

einat2346 ,
@einat2346@lemmy.today avatar

A 1 hour conversation? Anybody got a Too Long Didnt Listen?

Randelung ,

Good, they're just scamming at this point.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I was talking to my daughter yesterday about H. G. Wells and the one film he wrote the screenplay for, the 1936 film Things to Come.

In the film, a great world war starts in 1940 with an air attack on Britain (surprisingly prescient, but the rest isn't). The war lasts until 1970 until Britain is completely destroyed and petty dictators rule tiny patches of land in the wastes. But men of science return to Britain and rebuild it as a scientific utopia.

Wells was a scientific technocrat. He thought that scientists should be in charge of things because there was nothing technology could do that wouldn't eventually lift humanity up and bring about a paradise on Earth...

So why did he also write The Time Machine, where everything falls apart and humanity splits into two species, both unintelligent? Because he was also a socialist and he saw what capitalism and the class system was doing to the world (The War of the Worlds was also about this, a critique of Western colonialism).

So over 100 years ago, H. G. Wells was telling us that we were on a path to either scientific utopia or destruction due to our embracing old modes of thinking.

What would he have made of capitalists using technology to end civilization?

NigelFrobisher ,

This is literally already what “bleeding edge” meant and means.

Grass ,

The only future they have been selling the whole time is like ghost in the shell or psycho pass but somehow worse and with more and worse crime and depression and no suspenseful drama or epic action scenes.

Harbinger01173430 ,

What future? They were selling us a Warhammer dystopia rather than glorious halo or something cool. Useless tech clowns

Daft_ish ,

Good, open the market for true innovation.

mods_are_assholes ,

That's not what's happening.

Now it's just 'open the market for VCs to suck the good out of everything they can'

Daft_ish ,

I have verifiably never been active military or served in Nam but the first thought that came to my head was Veit Cong.

mods_are_assholes ,

I'd argue Venture Capitalists have done more damage to the world than the Vietcong ever did.

Telodzrum ,

Always was

mods_are_assholes ,

Before Neoliberalism, VC type investing was done with a view for the future.

Nowadays it's all 'drain the value, dump the husk, move on to the next startup'.

It's parasitic and on a scale never before seen in human history.

Telodzrum ,

Bad, horrible, revisionist take. The idiots now are the same as the idiots then, they just were your heroes so you don't want to hear it.

mods_are_assholes ,

Botlike typing detected.

Telodzrum ,

Omg, it’s becoming self aware!

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

Before Neoliberalism, VC type investing was done with a view for the future.

Who were the VCs of the 19th century?

Fudoshin ,
@Fudoshin@feddit.uk avatar

Older generations may not be. Millenials were big into the latest, greatest Android and Apple devices but trailed off eventually. I'm using a Samsung S9 as my main phone now cos I don't see a point in upgrading.

But Zoomers and Alphas have serious FOMO so they want the latest everything.

Same will happen again in a cycle. It's why governments and corpos want MORE babies being born. Kids are naive and see things like "ray tracing" as being uber-essential when really it's not and the tech is silly.

crimsonpoodle ,

Ray tracing might not be essential(it is cool though), however the tensor cores and ram are for certain things. — Naive Zoomer

(Technological advancement can be a net win for society— however people have been burned one too many times by the business types circle jerking it to short term profits and monetizing data collection)

Pantsofmagic ,

Of all of the bullshit tech out there I'm not sure why you chose ray tracing to pick on. I remember how cool stuff like pov-ray was in the 90s and how cool it would be to have good lighting in real time some day. It's kind of here now and it adds some flair to certain games. Far from essential but it's more interesting than the bullshit "innovation" that happens elsewhere these days. Phones are miserable for this.

The S9 was a solid choice and came with expandable storage, a headphone jack, and a notification LED - which I miss dearly... but by goodness is it slow as hell and stopped getting security patches.

Meowoem ,

People love to say things like this but it's kinda ridiculous, pretty much every new tech is hugely successful. Those battery advances that no one really believes in? You've probably got one of them in your hand now, you're probably physically closer to someone using chatGPT than you are to someone reading a book - if not you almost certainly met more people today who have used gpt more recently than they've read from a book. Vr adoption continues to grow, automation solutions are getting installed all over the place at a rapid rate, electric cars are gaining market share, whole countries are using desalination for their water supply, everyone that's said anything about Osiris rex has been excited about the move towards space based industry.

The bulk of the population is loving the endless tech upgrades and eager for more, yeah not everything is good and most people are adult enough to realise that.

(No I did not read the article, someone said it was shit and I don't doubt them)

ExLisper ,

Of course new tech is used in industry but consumer products are a different story. And it's complex. People like spending money on stuff, it makes them feel better, so when the world gets depressing they buy things. Also, a side effect of not being able to afford a home is that people have more disposable income to spend on toys. Why save money if you will never save enough? So yes, people buy new products but do they really buy them because they are exited about new tech? I doubt it. You can easily run a 10 year old laptop and (if you're lucky and it's not broken) 5 year old phone today and you wouldn't be missing anything. No one really asked for AI, 5G and AR.

Meowoem ,

But this is not true, everyone has been asking for better internet speed and natural language computing. 5G was required because everyone is online all the time, yeah people aren't hyped about it because it's boring but if we didn't have 5g and archaic infrastructure didn't scale with demand then you bet people would be yelling about it - when a train goes by there's a hundred people using mobile internet, likely none of them care about 5g but they love being able to work, chat and browse the internet on their journey.

Ai is absurdly beneficial to people already and it's incredibly early days, again people aren't going to be especially hyped by most it's uses, in fact they won't notice most of them but it'll help fix a lot of things that really annoy or negatively affect them.

As someone who has spent a lot of time learning about and designing GUIs I can tell you that designing a system to give all the different user sets and types the controls they need is super complex - as someone who actually programs them I can assure you implementing whatever system is created to do this is even more painfully difficult. Now imagine not having to do that, imagine I can make a tool and the user just has to say 'import this old file in an obscure format then do these obscure but relatively simple things...' this is huge from a development point of view and even huger from a user point of view.

Ever have a family member ask you for the tenth time how to find their emails? Or hand you a device you've never seen before and say 'can you change the font size' and you have to go through menus and Google how to do it? Soon it'll be fairly standard to just tell things what you want and for them to actually understand.

This is just one small benefit that LLMs and natural language computing bring, I could list other benefits for days

ExLisper ,

I didn't say it's not useful, I said people are not buying products because of them. People are not running to the stores to get the new 5G phone. I remember 4G roll-out and it was a big thing. You suddenly could use the internet the same way you did at home. With 5G there are no new usecases. You're not going to watch 4K movie on your phone. LLMs also don't sell devices. Siri and Alexa were kind of interesting when they came out and sold many smart speakers but LLMs are a tool, not a gadget.

I also didn't read the article but there is something to it. Are you exited about Threads the same way everyone was exited about gmail? Are you exited about Vision Pro the same way everyone went crazy for the iPhone? More and more often I'm searching for a product now and simply end up disappointed. There are no smart watches I would like to buy (the new features they have are all useless), new phones have less features (where's my headphones jack? where's my hardware keyboard?), the best new thing about laptops is flat RAM... Consumer products have stalled. It's all gimmicks now instead of actually interesting features. I think it's all good enough and we simply don't have the tech to offer actual breakthrough in usability.

___ ,

We thought that with the blackberry. We thought that with vacuum tubes. We that that with chip scaling.

Thinking that will make it true.

ExLisper ,

we simply don’t have the tech to offer actual breakthrough in usability.

I didn't say such breakthrough is not possible. Just that it didn't happen yet so most new products are gimmicks. When they will come up with actual improvement we will know.

riodoro1 ,

vr adoption continues to grow

It’s only gonna be 10 more years, I promise.

Meowoem ,

Complex tech takes time to develop, who'd have guessed!

HandBreadedTools ,

I'm sorry homie but VR is going nowhere. No one outside of a small, niche community even cares about it anymore.

Death ,

I think VR is doing OK
According to Steam has more number users than either Mac or Linux
And just Quest 2 alone has 20 millions unit sold, same number as XBOX Series X/S that released on the same year
I don't think the situation is that bad

Evotech ,

20 million sold. 19 million units covered in dust in some box you never check

crimsonpoodle ,

Seems anecdotal at best— I play beat Sabre at least a few times a week with the family, which is ironically, still anecdote.

Meowoem ,

Ha ok, we'll see how that prediction pans out.

Yes the expensive and complex products available today limit the audience which in turn lowers the attractiveness of the market to creators which further inhibits uptake, the exact same thing is clearly visible in the home computer adoption curve and many similar developments.

First adopters create an ecosystem of markets which results in a growing diversity of established use cases - many ideas fail but some prove to be very efficient and effective as part of a workflow which over going becomes the standard way of doing things.

As there are more things for which vr becomes established it transitions from being something major creators don't really bother with to something that they make a show of supporting - especially as the general ecosystem has become established so things like which menu style to use or how to orientate views have become easy choices. This changes vr from being niche special use to a fairly general tool that a lot of people are used to using.

At that point we'll see a lot of cheap consumer devices which results in a lot more development on the market, especially as natural language input through LLMs make control interfaces easier and similar generative ai make creating vr environments easier.

Vr is going to be something that most people are used to using somewhat regularly, I don't think it'll replace screens but there's a lot of things that we currently do on a screen that will just make more sense in vr

Shadywack ,
@Shadywack@lemmy.world avatar

Ha ok, we will see how that prediction plays out, indeed. VR is a dumbass joke that very few people care about. If anything it's been made the butt of even more jokes since Ready Player One came out and emphasized that the dregs of society will just use it as escapism, if we're lucky enough to have a universal basic income.

Trailer trash using it for stupid purposes, and getting real work done with it is still pathetic.

VR is going no-where fast, and the fad has moved on. Even Valve has a shiny new toy to play with as the Steam Deck keeps selling. Nobody cares, and that's ok, because it's a stupid useless tech still.

soEZ ,

This sound like a take from some one who never tried vr games or used a vr headset... Once you use even current quest 2/3 you will quickly realize the possibilities and advantages vr can have...the issue is the tech is still not quiet there yet for average consumer (and it was not even close for last 20 years for sure)...we need better compact graphics processing units, and denser screens with better optics designs..these will all happen in time. Assuming we don't die from global warming or ww3. Once the hurdle of high cost/low dpi/relatively limited processing power of now is overcome, vr/ar will be defacto standard for PC gaming and work, as using fixed screens will be inefficient/more expensive. I would use my quest pro for work if it had 40% higher dpi/clarity and I cn easily see the tech getting there in 2-3 years time. Mobile GPU power will take a decade to run games with graphics of today ( I am referring to stand alone headsets, as pcvr is to cumbersome for casual gaming, this will improve with better software and wifi development but wifi 6 is bearly good enough today, so we likely see wifi7 come along and usher in dedicated headsets with console coupling (e.g. wireless VR headset + PlayStation ) (better mobile processors for faster decoding will help a ton as well). Vr/Ar will continue to grow and once it gets critical mass will explode as we are seeing with electric cars.

Shadywack ,
@Shadywack@lemmy.world avatar

I bought a Rift cv1, Rift S, Quest and Quest 2, so much for your pretentious first sentence.

You’re droning on about how it’s still just around the corner “if only we had” with reference to smaller processing units etc. VR is still bullshit until all those “if only we had” things are here.

FellowEnt ,

You think VR is a joke but bought 4 HMDs?

Shadywack ,
@Shadywack@lemmy.world avatar

IKR! I bought in on its future, and it was always "Welllllll the NEXT one will be the big breakthrough!" and it keeps being screen door effect, fatigue issues, light leakage, and just left wanting. I'm an opponent over it because it's always been overhyped. Some of the best killer apps abandoned the platforms due to the lack of revenue, and the dream has just been a dream this entire time.

I'm viciously opposed, BECAUSE I was so vested in it and watched generation after generation of the same bullshit "next time it'll be the real breakthrough" when it's always just janky.

Looking at how stupid people look wearing Apple Vision Pro's, it just reminds me of big tech promising a revolution with Google Glass only to become a mockery of itself. There are some curious architecture and art applications alongside drone flights, but that's very niche.

Meowoem ,

Ah I should have guessed your opinion comes from a weird type of elitist nonsence but I can play that game too if you like...

You're only thinking about the world you know which appears to be shitty movies and being a gamer that's decided you're not like the degenerate games you're high class, ok bud but I doubt that's how s casual observer sees it and I think you know that which is why you put on such a show to p distance yourself from what you recognise if your set. So shove your classism up your ass and grow up.

People with actual important things going on have been using vr for years, they did fucking surgery on a grape for fuck sake! While the surgeons were extoling the wonders of VR for complex remote surgery using hyper advanced robotics what the fuck were you doing? Bitching that the console noobs don't have the same high culture as pc gamers?

When the USAF flies the F-35 and the pilot puts on his HMDS with the Distributed Aperture System do you think it's because they're trailer trash junkies looking for a distraction or maybe because billions of dollars of research went into creating the absolute best control system and it turned out that's very clearly VR?

And the drone operators, the architects, the astronauts at nasa who use it... They just haven't realised it's stupid and useless, only an enlightened pc gamer like yourself is wise enough to realise there's no use for it.

  • well that was cathartic, hope you don't take anything I said personally and that you have a lovely day but I felt it appropriate.

Vr has proven to institutions that have the money and tech to use it that it's incredibly useful, as tech improves and ecosystems get established we will see it move towards ubiquity there's no doubt about that.

Shadywack ,
@Shadywack@lemmy.world avatar

Lol, the only grapes here are your sour grapes that people don't give a fuck about VR except for shiny toys and things that run up medical bills for equipment surgeons don't need, making healthcare costs worse.

Also don't make me laugh about the F-35. Look up "Boondoggle". As for professional uses, drone operators are about your only successful use case. Everything else is just an expensive toy looking for a purpose.

You wouldn't be so salty if you weren't insulted that VR is a ridiculous joke.

Meowoem ,

F35 went over budget and behind schedule but it's an incredibly effective combat aircraft

Shadywack ,
@Shadywack@lemmy.world avatar

Sure, no argument there. There's just stuff like this

Not living up to top billing
The company building the F-35 has made grand claims. Lockheed Martin said the plane would be far better than current aircraft – “four times more effective” in air-to-air combat, “eight times more effective” in air-to-ground combat and “three times more effective” in recognizing and suppressing an enemy’s air defenses. It would, in fact, be “second only to the F-22 in air superiority.” In addition, the F-35 was to have better range and require less logistics support than current military aircraft. The Pentagon is still calling the F-35 “the most affordable, lethal, supportable, and survivable aircraft ever to be used.”

But that’s not how the plane has turned out. In January 2015, mock combat testing pitted the F-35 against an F-16, one of the fighters it is slated to replace. The F-35A was flown “clean” with empty weapon bays and without any drag-inducing and heavy externally mounted weapons or fuel tanks. The F-16D, a heavier and somewhat less capable training version of the mainstay F-16C, was further encumbered with two 370-gallon external wing-mounted fuel tanks.

In spite of its significant advantages, the F-35A’s test pilot noted that the F-35A was less maneuverable and markedly inferior to the F-16D in a visual-range dogfight.

Source: https://theconversation.com/what-went-wrong-with-the-f-35-lockheed-martins-joint-strike-fighter-60905 (sub sources cited as well including military journals and declassified documents from the Air Force).

There are other gems out there about the F35 including how obsolete weapons from 1999 can penetrate its stealth capabilities, hone in on its radar cross section, and shoot it down.

But y'know, kinda like this VR pipe dream, don't let facts get in the way of delusion. Let's just pretend it's all great.

roofuskit ,

Just like hydrogen cars, in ten years it's going to be big. (10 years later) in ten years everyone is going to be using it. (10 years later) etc...

Shadywack ,
@Shadywack@lemmy.world avatar

lol, there was no article, that was the irony. Just like the promises of big tech for the past 5 years, and all we're seeing is endless stupid fads and gargantuan wastes of resources.

fruitycoder ,

It's their ad/intro for their pod cast shrug

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Aren't we still using the same old Lithium ion batteries from 20 years ago?

Nomecks ,

Yup, no refinements, advancements or chemistry changes at all. Exact same, yup.

Daft_ish ,

Chemistry changes?

Nomecks ,

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-15355-0

Daft_ish ,

Interesting

Meowoem ,

Ha yeah in the same way we're still using the same old pn semiconductor wafers from the 90s - it's basically the same thing which is why I still use my p120 and it's just as good as any of these modern machines with their fancy 7nm pathways!

The batteries used today are much better than old batteries and the manufacturing technologies are far superior also, it depends on the device of course but energy density, charge speed, reliability has increased also manufacturing cost and requirements, low lithium batteries are getting more common for example.

Plus it's getting increasingly likely that the lithium in your battery has already been a different battery previously thanks to new recycling methods so that's pretty cool.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

You're right that it's refined more but I was more hoping for a truly different combination. What we've done to li-ion seems akin to how we refined combustion engines.

To truly achieve a massive performance leap it seems like we need an actual different combination. I recall CATL making sodium-ion batteries. Lithium is still a rather scarce metal which poses a problem for mass production.

Meowoem ,

Yeah its weird tech is moving so absurdly fast at that moment that people seem to have gotten used to huge breakthroughs and want one ever week, like with ai how astonishing developments aren't even implemented yet but people are saying it's not impressive or development has stalled.

There's a lot of really good stuff that's coming to market slowly, the main problem is lithium is so cheap and easy at the moment that it's not really worth it for anyone to take a risk on something new. It is happening but it'll take a while for the special use cases to filter though and it to reach a more general market.

Another good example is wave power, there are now working commercial devices and very successful test projects but because it's complex and still has high planning and development costs associated with it everyone is sticking to wind and solar. There will be a point soon where tidal generation sneaks into common use just like desalination did

Hardly anyone is even aware how many of the areas we got told would have water wars now have desalination partnerships and plenty of water to go round. They can even extract lithium in the same process and we're starting to see that getting built too.

I think the real thing is going to be when the various strands of ai combine with the incredibly good robotics we have developed over the last few decades, people are going to be shocked how much it'll speed up every physical industry. Being able to show the robot 'this surface here needs to be sanded smooth ready for spraying' and it can understand the request, evolve a movement solution and continually check it's work as it goes.

The problem is everyone knows that's coming and it's a game changer so no one is really interested in the amazing advances we keep making or the more basic tools. Companies aren't going to invest five years researching and developing the sort of product we can make now when they know other companies as already investing big in general purposes tools that'll ruin all those markets.

SpiceDealer ,
@SpiceDealer@lemmy.world avatar

(No I did not read the article, someone said it was shit and I don’t doubt them)

Considering that this article comes from Vice I'm not surprised.

acetanilide ,

Ok but can we talk about that cookies popup? Yikes
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/22717974-ae6d-4e86-a4ba-a70178115257.png

RisingSwell ,

I mean, isn't that the better way of doing it? One popup, exains everything, gives you the option to opt out in that popup instead of going through settings and shit.

NevermindNoMind ,

I think it's intentionally wordy and the opt-out is "on" by default. I am usually instinctively just trying to hit the "off" button as quickly as possible and hitting save so I can get rid of the window, without actually reading anything. I almost certainly would have accidentally opted in to third party tracking.

I fully admit I might just be dumb though.

RisingSwell ,

It could be less wordy, it isn't perfect. I have definitely run into ones that require going through multiple layers of settings though, so this just seems a lot less bullshit than that.

Looking at the image again, default to not sharing while calling that 'on' and being slightly awkward is definitely not an accident and is probably designed to trick people paying no attention at all.

Holyginz ,

I took a look at the website provided and holy shit there are a lot of downstream providers. And when i click on the link for the first site I immediately get a pop-up warning from ublock.

acetanilide ,

Yeah it's ridiculous. And the wording on the cookie popup is confusing af.

Holyginz ,

It is. I thought It would let you opt out at that site. Nope you have to go to each of the leech sites individually and of course they are going to make it difficult as hell to opt out if they even allow it at all.

acetanilide ,

Thats even worse than i thought

Shirasho ,

Nobody wants to invest 2 months paycheck into hardware that the developer is going to drop support for in 6 months.

Hardware is too expensive for the average Joe to buy and those of us who can afford it are tired of being burned by companies that provide subpar service then drop support for the thing. Cool, bleeding edge tech means little if there is little use for it or if nobody can afford it.

BearOfaTime ,

On the nose.

I used to love the bleeding edge, then my father (retired engineer) enlightened me on why important (electro-mechanical stuff) runs on older, slower, (but insanely reliable) engineering.

It's that insanely reliable part. Kind of a hare vs the tortoise kind of thing. It's more important to be able to predict when the tortoise arrives, than to be unpredictable like the hare, even if the hare finishes first 90% of the time. That last ten percent could be a massive cost.

Look at the ECU in a car - over the 40 years I've been working on cars (and my brothers and friends), we've seen exactly ONE ECU failure, and we think that was caused by an external event (a voltage spike).

I've bought a few "new tech" solutions only to have the company disappear within a couple years. For example, software for replicating a Windows install that could then install on any computer, retaining all the config and software. It was intelligent enough to update drivers as needed. They were around for 2 years, and the license has to validate against their servers. Bastards. Lol. (I'm guessing Microsoft acquired them to keep people from using it).

Bob_Robertson_IX ,

I'm guessing Microsoft acquired them to keep people from using it

And that's also why it was designed to need their servers to authenticate against: because they could charge Microsoft more if their product could be switched off remotely. They likely built the product with the aim of getting bought up. Who wants to run a company for 40 years when you can just skim a few million off of Microsoft and retire?

BearOfaTime ,

Lol, probably true.

They know how valuable the tech was. I still have the software and all the licensing info. Part of me feels like doing a Wireshark to see what it's trying to do. I should've done that while they were around, to see the traffic.

afraid_of_zombies ,

then my father (retired engineer) enlightened me on why important (electro-mechanical stuff) runs on older, slower, (but insanely reliable) engineering.

I am in the controls and automation sector. Your dad is half right.

  1. You have to look at the whole system to determine reliability. Oh sure what you have now is going to last a long time but no one knows how to repair it when it dies. Plus all the components are no longer available so now a repair job is going to involve lots of work. I can't count the number of times I have had to bail out a plant because the one guy who knew how it worked retired. Very expensive.

  2. Why do you need reliability? No really ask yourself this. Or better yet how much do you need. The answer is not going to be "as much as possible". Are you going to do this process this way for 30 years? No? Ok why did you pay 4x as much for a machine that can last 50? There is almost no chance whatever process you are doing is going to be the same forever. There will be improvements and your competition will take advantage of them.

  3. What the heck does reliability even mean? Take a classic FET output vs a relay output.

Relays: easy to repair, can handle almost any voltage you throw at them, sensitive to vibrations causing false state changes, rated for a 10k cycles.

FETs: can't repair, can handle limited voltage ranges, ignore vibrations, rated for a million cycles.

Now tell me, given these facts, which one will result in less downtime over say ten years? I am asking here because I don't have enough information. Again you need to look at the whole system to determine which way you want to go. I have seen machines act up seemly randomly because a relay was flipping from vibrations and I have seen ones fuse contacts causing a machine to rip itself apart. I have also seen FETs die from a tiny surge.

  1. Maybe you don't want a repairable system. I know this might be startlingly fact but it might benefit you to not have any ability to mess with your machine. Lots of amps and high voltage in these you going to have your guys open it up and mess around? Now you have the liability now your OEM can get pissed at you and not want to help because you messed with the design. You also compromised the UL label. The OEM can make a solid argument that if there is a workers comp suit that you altered it and hence it is on you. That's part of the reason why security screws are finding their way into factory equipment. Makes it that much harder to get inside.

  2. I also question the mentality of customers who insist on individually long lasting parts when they haven't even established that they are. Sure NEMA contactors vs IEC ones look tougher but do you have data to back up that they are infact longer lasting? In real world conditions.

  3. To put it bluntly: people get old and are afraid of change. They have half remembered wisdom about something that may have been true at one point but isn't anymore. The result is crap design. Fuses that don't protect anything, transformers that don't prevent surges, heafty parts that are a waste of material, line reactors when there is an internal one in the Soft starter/VFD, multiple voltage domains when 2 would have been sufficient, indicating lights that are dim, hardcoded non-safety interlocks when we have software, branch circuit protection when it isn't needed, expensive hard to replace push-to-test lights instead of a simple switch and software, thick wire crammed into limit switches that is almost impossible to repair, ancient PLCs no longer under support, serial comms that can't be troubleshooted, external power that defeats lock-out-tagout, roller switches that have to be made in a machine shop...

Oh sure your system will work but it radiants excessive heat, parts costs multiple times what they should to replace, large portions of the design do nothing but add heat and increase the chance of failure, it pulls a lot of energy, it can't be upgraded or even half the time incorporated into a line, it is more dangerous to work with, and you look like a fucking moron as people in the future learn not to buy a camel (horse built by committee) from you.

Don't go into controls/automation if you have any passion for good design. If you want to know what about a quarter of my customers are like imagine someone insisting that you apply the noose of a hangman to your forehead to fix a headache and women who show ankles carry smallpox.

Blue_Morpho ,

Oh sure your system will work but it radiants excessive heat, parts costs multiple times what they should to replace, large portions of the design do nothing but add heat and increase the chance of failure,

That's all well and good for a factory, but I just want a dishwasher that lasts more than 5 years. I'm on my 3rd Bosch dishwasher. They keep getting worse. Now they require an app to use what was a button on the dishwasher.

afraid_of_zombies ,

I don't know. Maybe stop buying from them?

steakmeout ,

There are free solutions that are open source, hell there’s older commercial solutions from Acronis and whatever Symantec calls Ghost these days. You made a poor choice in selecting a losing horse in a race that’s been run many times - how is that a reflection of the state of modern tech? You didn’t choose the Hare, you chose poorly.

The article and this discussion isn’t about reliable solutions vs new fangled stuff that doesn’t realise, it’s about what we do now that stuff realised and we didn’t think about what we signed up for. I’m really glad your dad encouraged you to think about the value of well-worn approaches but you’re being extremely reductive as are many in this discussion. What I find interesting about that is I feel this trend towards reductive thinking probably reflects a world seemingly happily with sliding the Overton window right inch by inch.

LazaroFilm , (edited )
@LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

You know what I want to look at devices prices and their typical lifespan and see what their monthly cost is once adjusted for inflation. I’m curious how device prices have evolved…

Edit: I asked ChatGPT (so not verified info) and yes it gave me a md compatible table lol

Device Release Price Lifespan Monthly Cost of Ownership Release Date
Nokia 3310 (Adjusted) $67.15 8 years Approximately $0.70 2000
5th Gen iPod (iPod Video) $299 6 years Approximately $4.15 2005
iPod Touch (7th Gen) $199 6 years Approximately $2.76 2019
MacBook Air (M1 chip) $999 5 years Approximately $16.65 2020
Google Pixel 5 (Base) $699 4 years Approximately $14.56 2020
iPhone 13 (Base Model) $699 4 years Approximately $14.56 2021
Samsung Galaxy S21 (Base) $799 4 years Approximately $16.65 2021
iPhone 13 Pro (Base Model) $999 4 years Approximately $20.81 2021
Apple Vision Pro $3,499 4 years Approximately $72.90 2024

Edit2 added iPod and iPhone 13 Pro and more coming as I think of it. Feel free to suggest things in the comments.

Edit3 added android phones.

thejml ,

While this is true, I feel like this tank misses a few things.

  • not everyone replaces on this schedule. I still know people that go 2hrs or less on a phone. At the same point, I bought new, used, then passed down to my daughter,my iPhone 6 and she finally replaced it in 2022. It was still getting security updates. That’s 8 yrs. I’m not in a hurry to replace my iPhone 11, it’s still perfectly fine. My late 2013 MBP, still works well. (I replaced the battery once in 2020) I finally upgraded to an M2, but continue to use the 2013 for things at times.

People replace things too often imho. But to go with this theme, I used to do so as well… swapped my iPhone 3GS for a 4s and then the 6. I’d build a new desktop every 18-24 months near the late 90’s and 2000’s. Things were improving so fast in those times, it was worth it… but then things have stagnated. I don’t see a good reason to get a new iPhone, and while I love the M2, it’ll easily tide me over for 10 yrs. My wife still uses her Lenovo laptop from 2011. Cost is only part of the equation. Sure I don’t want to drop the coin, but also there’s really no big changes worth it to me.

I do miss my Nokia 3110 though. Stability and battery life were awesome. Those were simpler days.

machinin ,

I think you want to use hourly cost, or maybe some other measure of the utility of something. I can own a rock, and it may be a magnificent rock that will last centuries, but it isn't going to give me much benefit.

Same with an old cell phone. I may be able to use it for 8 years, but I'm not going to use it for navigation, taking pictures, video chatting with family/friends, replacing my laptop when I'm out, etc.

Your table is a good start, but it's missing some really important information

LazaroFilm ,
@LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

Please what info is it missing? I added the iPods for that reason.

machinin ,

Basically, I don't think think monthly cost of ownership is a good metric for value.

I probably used an old cell phone maybe 3 hours a week. I use my smartphone at least 3 hours a day communicating with people, reading news, studying, games for kids, work, etc. I don't think monthly cost of ownership reflects the value that those devices bring me. Your table needs a different column that measures the value more appropriately. Perhaps ownership cost per hour of usage?

You have another issue in that smartphones replace cameras, radios/Walkmen, maps, and even laptops In many cases. An iphone doesn't just replace an old Nokia, it replaces all those other items as well.

I don't think you need more rows, you need different columns.

kent_eh ,

Please what info is it missing

The entire android ecosystem

LazaroFilm , (edited )
@LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

Very good pint.

Device Release Price Lifespan Monthly Cost of Ownership Release Date
Nokia 3310 (Adjusted) $67.15 8 years Approximately $0.70 2000
5th Gen iPod (iPod Video) $299 6 years Approximately $4.15 2005
iPod Touch (7th Gen) $199 6 years Approximately $2.76 2019
MacBook Air (M1 chip) $999 5 years Approximately $16.65 2020
Google Pixel 5 (Base) $699 4 years Approximately $14.56 2020
iPhone 13 (Base Model) $699 4 years Approximately $14.56 2021
Samsung Galaxy S21 (Base) $799 4 years Approximately $16.65 2021
iPhone 13 Pro (Base Model) $999 4 years Approximately $20.81 2021
Apple Vision Pro $3,499 4 years Approximately $72.90 2024
fruitycoder ,

Maybe add a popular budget android phone too as opposed to flag ships.

hume_lemmy ,

Put another way: I'm not going to believe in a new product more than the vendor does, because that's stupid. And we've had it demonstrated time and time again that the vendors don't believe in their products.

dmalteseknight ,
@dmalteseknight@programming.dev avatar

The kicker is that the devices are usually locked down so even if you have the motivation to get your hands dirty, you can't. The device dies as soon as support dies.

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