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Fake4000 OP ,

Shit move from Reddit. Glad I jumped ship to lemmy.

Honestly, lemmy has less users compared to Reddit, yet you still get more engagement.

DarkNightoftheSoul , (edited )
@DarkNightoftheSoul@mander.xyz avatar

The only engagement you actually get is on super-niche subreddits. Other than that, the "engagement" you get on reddit is largely indistinguishable from bot traffic.

Haagel ,

💍 Will you marry me?

DarkNightoftheSoul ,
@DarkNightoftheSoul@mander.xyz avatar

Can you pass a capcha?

wise_pancake ,

Are you implying I can’t pick out bridges or motorcycles? I definitely can, but I won’t do it for you as some kind of sick parlor trick.

Speaking of tricks, did you know there are singles in your area!

DarkNightoftheSoul ,
@DarkNightoftheSoul@mander.xyz avatar

Sexy singles- In my area? Are there any weird tricks they don't want me to know? Just one would probably work.

Lemminary ,

They can make entire hot dogs disappear! Crazy, right?

One bite at a time, you sickos. Omg, you pervs.

balancedchaos ,

...didn't have to be the mouth. I'm still impressed.

VubDapple ,

You just engaged.

AbidanYre ,

Or admitted to being a bot.

Spacemanspliff ,

This isn't Reddit though.

AbidanYre ,

I feel like that comment was edited to be less ambiguous.

DarkNightoftheSoul ,
@DarkNightoftheSoul@mander.xyz avatar

I added "on reddit" when I saw people were misunderstanding me.

rebelsimile ,

I come to Lemmy to read threads of people arguing about whether or not they’re talking to each other at all. This is doing it for me.

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@startrek.website avatar

Your stipud ! (both sic and /s btw) -> there, now you don't have to go back to Reddit to recall the nostalgia, you are ... welcome, I guess?:-D

Lemminary ,

Ahhh, that's the stuff. 🤤 Do it again.

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@startrek.website avatar

Your (sic) WRONG!

About EVRRTYHIGN! (sic)

I may know nothing myself, but I still have an opinion and will share it with you, consent be damned!

Why I... [Reddit cap exceeded, please deposit $10 to continue conversation].

sigmaklimgrindset ,
@sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz avatar

👆this

(Did that do it?)

EatATaco ,

You are glad that you jumped to where AI companies can get the information for free, but are mad at Reddit for getting paid for it.

I can't make any sense of this.

grue ,

It's like the difference between volunteering and being forced to do community service.

EatATaco ,

In neither case are you forced to do anything so this doesn't make any sense either.

TORFdot0 ,

The difference is that Lemmy admins across the fediverse aren’t making the user experience worse so they can sell the data to corporations for LLM training

EatATaco ,

So it's really that the user experience is getting worse. Feeding ai has nothing to do with it.

ultra ,

I'd rather have AI companies have my data for free than reddshit gettong paid for it

tacofox ,

First of all, tacos are friends, not food..

Secondly, I think it’s more important what they did to achieve this goal, locking down the API behind a paywall was their way of creating value in their data. They knew then that it would be too expensive for independent developers to pay for but didn’t care. They knew the money would be coming AI data brokers.

AtariDump ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/343450c3-1135-4d70-b27c-d572c5c4d301.jpeg

Quadhammer ,

If gollum and Steve Buscemi had a secret baby

darko8472 ,

Glad I deleted all of my content over there, then.

echo64 ,

This may shock you, but it's not deleted.

Fake4000 OP ,

Yeah. There was this guy who deleted his account but Reddit restored it. Apparently he was going to take them to court based on some GDPR article.

APassenger ,

They still have all the edit history. All editing does is show the last one. The servers would have every version.

skillissuer ,
@skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

this is explicitly illegal under GDPR

fuckwit_mcbumcrumble ,

That's not going to stop them.

skillissuer ,
@skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

but you can sue their ass over it

Ragnarok314159 ,

I attempted to delete all my posts using one of those nuke-Reddit scripts and my account got banned for it.

PrincessLeiasCat ,

And that’s why I edited+deleted all of mine.

furzegulo ,

i stopped using reddit and deleted my accout and posts when they introduced those fucking nft-avatars and it seems that they've been going downhill ever since that.

Fake4000 OP ,

Those NFT things were just a bad move.

thantik ,

When you delete your account and posts now, unless you edit them first, all deleting them does is hide their visibility in the database. The post is still there.

furzegulo ,

well damn

AtmaJnana ,

they were headed downhill loooong before NFTs became a thing.

ReallyKinda ,

Our collective toilet thoughts are going to fuel the future of robot rhetoric guys

wise_pancake ,

We should have been posting factually incorrect information instead of deleting posts this whole time.

Although I think Reddit does a good job paying factually incorrect information on its own.

Everythingispenguins ,

I am willing to bet the most active subreddits that are not too bot infested are the NSFW ones. Reddit AI is going to be creepy and horny.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@kbin.social avatar

AI trainers do a lot of work filtering and reformatting the training data. Often that's the most expensive part. There's a lot of synthetic data used these days too, reprocessed by other AIs.

db2 ,

Greedy little pigboy Steve couldn't resist. Every day they seem to do something that reaffirms leaving was the best plan.

ME5SENGER_24 ,

FUCK REDDIT! FUCK U/SPEZ! The Red-exit shall endure, VIVA LA LEMMY!!

bobs_monkey ,

Just because the coffee is free doesn't mean you have to drink the entire carafe

dual_sport_dork ,
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

Yes it does. I'll get bullet-time superpowers eventually, just watch...

bobs_monkey ,

que heart attack

DragonTypeWyvern ,

You get nerve damage and seizures before a heart attack unless you have a pre-existing condition.

Lemminary ,

^Hush, with the facts. The small print requires you to suspend some belief for the jokes to work. Don't blow it!^

Lemminary ,

¿Qué?

bobs_monkey ,

Queue*

Lemminary ,

🤗

MaggiWuerze ,

Cue

bobs_monkey ,

That's the bugger

victorz ,

I remember that episode of Futurama

prex ,

https://aussie.zone/pictrs/image/5cf7a58b-af03-40a3-a710-b6c7cb5fad3b.jpeg

victorz ,

Hypnotoad getting ready for work

ahriboy ,
@ahriboy@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

And FUCK XITTER. Bluesky and Mastodon are waving!

MxM111 ,

I don’t mind to give my content for AI training. But with my approval and for free.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@kbin.social avatar

You can't put conditions on it retroactively. You already published.

MxM111 ,

I am not trying to do that retroactively.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@kbin.social avatar

"But with my approval and for free" are new conditions that weren't present when you originally published it on Reddit.

MxM111 ,

Yes, but I did not mean retroactively. Nor did I mean only on Reddit, by the way. However, making money from already published content is not what I have consented when I joined Reddit like 15 years ago.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@kbin.social avatar

From the current Reddit User Agreement:

You retain any ownership rights you have in Your Content, but you grant Reddit the following license to use that Content:

When Your Content is created with or submitted to the Services, you grant us a worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, transferable, and sublicensable license to use, copy, modify, adapt, prepare derivative works of, distribute, store, perform, and display Your Content and any name, username, voice, or likeness provided in connection with Your Content in all media formats and channels now known or later developed anywhere in the world. This license includes the right for us to make Your Content available for syndication, broadcast, distribution, or publication by other companies, organizations, or individuals who partner with Reddit. You also agree that we may remove metadata associated with Your Content, and you irrevocably waive any claims and assertions of moral rights or attribution with respect to Your Content.

I found a historical version from 10 years ago and that version already had this:

you agree that by posting messages, uploading files, inputting data, or engaging in any other form of communication with or through the Website, you grant us a royalty-free, perpetual, non-exclusive, unrestricted, worldwide license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, translate, enhance, transmit, distribute, publicly perform, display, or sublicense any such communication in any medium (now in existence or hereinafter developed) and for any purpose, including commercial purposes, and to authorize others to do so.

Haven't dug up anything earlier than this, do you know of any?

Basically, you gave Reddit your approval long ago.

MxM111 ,

Yep, they changed it.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@kbin.social avatar

Did you use the service in the last 10 years?

MxM111 ,

Yes I did, but it is not clear if these are enforceable in court, when they give us read those multi page agreements that most people skip. More over AI like today did not exist and one can easily argue that that agreement does not cover data use for AI like chatGPT, since neither of the side understood implications for that. It is like owning nukes is not covered by second amendment.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@kbin.social avatar

Well, I guess you could take them to court.

The important thing here IMO is not so much the enforceability as the intent. It was always obvious that Reddit would do whatever they wanted with the stuff we published there because they said they would do whatever they wanted with the stuff we published there. Personally, I knew this and just shrugged because it's no skin off my back if they do whatever they want with the stuff I published there - I was having fun posting, which was my goal. If they figured out some way to make those posts valuable then bully for them. They weren't otherwise valuable to me so it costs me nothing.

It's the same here on the Fediverse. When I post this stuff I'm tossing it out into the ether. It's on an open protocol intended to broadcast my comments to any compatible instances, so even if there isn't some literal terms of service that I signed that says "this content may show up on Threads or wherever" I know that it might show up on Threads or wherever. If I was truly fundamentally opposed to that then I wouldn't post.

MxM111 ,

As you could have guessed, I am on the same page with one exception (or addition) - I want my content to be used for free for AI training. My objection to Reddit agreement is that they want to paywall information needed for future progress.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@kbin.social avatar

Fortunately they may not really be able to. Reddit's comments and submissions are available here, and since this includes deleted content as well as the stuff that users have later edited away with scripts it may even be a better resource than what Reddit is offering itself. You'd need to train your AI in a legally permissive environment, of course, but there's places like that around the world and this is actually something that would advantage the "little guys" since they aren't as easy to target.

Boozilla ,
@Boozilla@lemmy.world avatar

I don't miss the dipshits, pun spammers, and smug power mods of reddit at all. I do miss their niche subs and smarter users. Like it or not, they do have some brainy folks peppered among the shit posters.

We have some good folks here, too. Just need more of them.

It's a shame reddit has been dialing up the shit faucet slowly enough that most of their users don't notice how awful it is now. They've grown accustomed to the poor quality of the content and weaponized greed of the owners.

Fake4000 OP ,

In all honesty, when I joined Reddit right after digg went to shit. It was amazing. Reddit was great, 3rd party apps were welcome, their interface was straightforward, and they had none of those NFT gold shit.

It just went downhill.

OmanMkII ,

I joined maybe 6 years ago, and there was a bit of shit talking and most posts had a troll answer hitting the most votes for some reason, but it was usually pretty good to scroll straight past and find some really insightful comments. There was a lot of good stuff around reddit, but slowly the absurb number of awards, NFT avatars, reposts, and ads every third post started to corrupt it. It was simple enough to switch to a third party app for quite a while, but the garbage slowly took over.

Even if they hadn't pulled 3rd party apps, it was getting pretty close a point where it wasn't worth scrolling past the bullshit.

NotSteve_ ,

At that point, they were also open source which was super cool. I always wanted that profile badge you got for submitting a merged PR.

Reddit really went downhill fast after ~2015. I think Lemmy will get there eventually. I remember reddit being a lot smaller back then as well. It took a while to get to the point where niche communities could thrive and I do believe we'll see that happen here as well (even if it takes a decade or so)

deweydecibel , (edited )

smug power mods of reddit at all.

Oh they're here too. They're not causing too much drama because there's not enough going on, but they're here. Some of them are admins of certain instances.

The ones that aren't here yet will eventually find their way here when Lemmy continues to grow. And the most concerning thing about that is how many more tools Lemmy is providing them to fuck with users.

At least on Reddit, mods couldn't see votes. Lemmy actually just made it easier for them.

deathbird ,

Yeah that's not good.

Ragnarok314159 ,

I left Reddit. Had over 600k Karma after a few years answering all kinds of questions from Veteran help to complex engineering.

Fuck Reddit. Will never go back. It’s a shell of what it was only a few years ago.

Boozilla ,
@Boozilla@lemmy.world avatar

Glad you're here with us!

ReadyUser31 ,

Going back to /r/all on reddit now just pure trash. It's unbelievable how badly it's declined, very recently.

Boozilla ,
@Boozilla@lemmy.world avatar

I wonder how much of it is just bots and karma farmers pretending to talk to each other. It's really awful.

Haagel ,

I've just deleted my Reddit account. That's the last straw for me.

Fake4000 OP ,

Deleting doesn't actually delete it all. I remember a Reddit user once filed a GDPR for restoring his information after he deleted them.

Haagel ,

Yeah, I figured as much. At least they can't count me as a user when they go public.

Nougat ,

Before they shut down the APIs, I deleted all my posts and edited all my comments.

Spez doesn’t get to profit from me anymore. And hopefully I’m poisoning the well.

Landmammals ,

The next move is to use AI to generate posts and comments

Fake4000 OP ,

I honestly think that has been happening with all these publications websites.

bigMouthCommie ,
@bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

spez says that's how he got reddit off the ground in the first place: faking content/engagement (well, genuinely engaging with his account(s?), but essentially shouting into the void and hoping enough people heard and wanted to stick around.

with a RedditUserBot trained on reddit users, you might be able to fake another decade of growth.

Wolpertinger ,
@Wolpertinger@sh.itjust.works avatar

So I need to run any comments I make to reddit by chatgpt before posting, it seems. I heard ai training ai leads to a poisoned data set.

General_Effort ,

Yeah, I heard that, too. Consider that people who don't like tech may not have very reliable knowledge of tech. Regardless, OAI would appreciate your business.

fishbone ,

For text, AI training AI wouldn't be all that great for giving data sets a little poison ivy rubdown, because at the end of the day, the message is still moderated by a non bot. I think a better way would be to write more unconventionally, but heavily contextual so that if specifics texts are ripped and tossed into the bot blender, it'll make no sense without the context alongside it.

Slang, edge case wording, and verbing non verbs would likely do a lot of heavy lifting in that department.

addie ,
@addie@feddit.uk avatar

Using LLMs for corporate communications - automatically-generated complaint responses, and the like - usually has swearing disabled, so if you want to fuck up their shit, be sure to express yourself with as many fucking swears as possible. Let's get that shit into those cunt's language models ASAP.

prex ,

I assume AI is training off the content here for free.

rar ,

It's all federated, so it would be strange the bots didn't scrape anything off.

OmanMkII ,

I was curious if a robots.txt equivalent exists for AI training data, and there was some solid points here:

If I go to your writing, I read it & learn from it. Your writing influences my future writing. We've been okay with this as long as it's not a blatant forgery.

If a computer goes to your writing, it reads it & learns from it. Your writing influences its future writing. It seems we are not okay with this, even if it isn't blatant forgery.

[AI at the moment is] different because the company is re-using your material to create a product they are going to sell. I'm not sure if I believe that is so different than a human employee doing the same thing.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34324208

I still think we should have the ability to opt out like we do with search engines and webcrawlers, but if the algorithm works ideally and learns but does not recycle content, is it truly any different from a factory of workers pumping out clones of popular series on Amazon? I honestly don't know the answer to that.

Appoxo ,

Afaik the OpenAI bot may choose to ignore it? At least that's what another user claimed it does.

JohnEdwa ,
@JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz avatar

Robots.txt has been always ignored by some bots, it's just a guideline originally meant to prevent excessive bandwidth usage by search indexing bots and is entirely voluntary.

Archive.org bot for example has completely ignored it since 2017.

MossyFeathers ,

This is kinda my take on it. However, the way I see it is that the AI isn't intelligent enough yet to truly create something original. As such, right now AI is closer to being a tool than a being. Because of that, it somewhat bothers me that I'm being used to teach a tool. If I thought that companies like OpenAI were truly trying to create beings and not tools, then I'd feel differently.

It's kinda nuanced, but a being can voluntarily determine whether or not something is copyright infringing, understand why that might be an issue, and then decide whether or not to continue writing based on that. A tool can't really do that. You can try and add filters to a tool to avoid writing copy written text, but that will have flaws and holes in it. A being who understands what it's writing and what makes it plagiarism vs reference vs homage/inspiration/whatever is less likely to have those issues.

deweydecibel ,

The problem is not the technology, the problem is the businesses and the people behind them.

These tools were made with the explicit purpose of taking the content that they did not create, repurposing them, and creating a product. Throw all these conversation about intelligence and learning out the fucking window, what matters is what the thing does, and why it was created to do that thing.

Until we reach a point where there is some sort of AI out there that has any semblance of free will, and can choose not to learn if fed certain information, and choose not to respond to input given to it without being programmed to do not respond, then we are not talking about intelligence, we are talking about a tool. No matter how they dress it up.

Stop arguing about this on their terms, because they're gaslighting the fuck out of you.

Bishma ,
@Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Yes, but there's no contract to give them legal cover if anyone ever does anything about all the content they steal.

deweydecibel , (edited )

And ya know what? Frankly, if AI is going to harvest all this shit, I'd rather fuckers like spez couldn't get rich off it in the process. Granted I'm not happy the tech bros running these AI companies are getting rich with these fucking things, but I can at least take solace that, for Lemmy at least, there isn't some asshole middle man making bank off the work and words of users they never paid a dime to.

Genuinely, why does Sepz and Reddit deserve to make money off anything we posted? Why does any social media site? They make the site, pay for the servers, maintain the apps, sure, and they can get compensation for that, I don't see a problem there. But why does any social media company deserve to get rich when the only thing that makes their platform valuable is the people that post to it? Reddit didn't even have paid mods, the community did all the work on the content of that site, why in the fuck do we tolerate these assholes making profit off it like this?

Quadhammer ,

Intellectual property theft

prex ,

100%

General_Effort ,

This is sad to read because I agree with all of it (except the casual sexism).

why in the fuck do we tolerate these assholes making profit off it like this?

Look at this thread. People delete their posts on Reddit. Which means that they can no longer be scraped for free. Which means they are now exclusively available in Reddit's archive. It's not that people tolerate it. It's that the first instinct of people who don't tolerate it, is to make it worse. What can you do?

Buddahriffic ,

What do you mean? What legal cover do they need against what actions?

Bishma ,
@Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

If the EU (or any other governments) decide that AI can't legally train their models on information they don't own or license (I don't know how that would work legally but they talk about it), then this company that Reddit has sold access to could argue to lawmakers that they have license for all the content on Reddit. I don't know that it would hold up, but I suspect it's part of the company's perceived value in this Reddit deal.

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