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SuperSpruce ,

I read this article, because it's absurd to make a class action lawsuit about the free tier remaining at only 5GB. Apple has the right to give as much or little away for free.

Instead, the lawsuit is about something a lot more lawsuit worthy: The fact that you cannot backup your iPhone with other cloud service providers, providing an unfair advantage to iCloud. This should definitely be illegal.

Additionally, can we have a lawsuit over excessive storage markups (that are over ~2x the gross margin of the device)? This is also basically pure profit.

SuperSpruce ,

I read this article, because it's absurd to make a class action lawsuit about the free tier remaining at only 5GB. Apple has the right to give as much or little away for free.

Instead, the lawsuit is about something a lot more lawsuit worthy: The fact that you cannot backup your iPhone with other cloud service providers, providing an unfair advantage to iCloud. This should definitely be illegal.

Additionally, can we have a lawsuit over excessive storage markups (that are over ~2x the gross margin of the device)? This is also basically pure profit.

soggy_kitty ,

How are you guys reading this article? It took me 5-10mins of unchecking each cookie vendor one by one before I gave up.

Modern internet is a shit show

plumpard ,

I’ve always wondered whether I should bother about doing this. I assumed if I read the article in a Private Browser, no cookies are stored, and therefore none of my information is tracked?

soggy_kitty ,

I'm not quite sure if they're allowed to use your IP to index your history or not. If you use private browser and VPN you'll be fine.

I've just never worked out how to easily open private browsers from my mobile sync client

Venator ,

I've just never worked out how to easily open private browsers from my mobile sync client

I think the easiest way is to use the share ... menu to get the link and then paste it in the private browser.

But yeah, no way to stop the keyboard app from seeing the link once it's in the clipboard... And Google also probably gets it from the android share functionality...

Zink ,
@Zink@pawb.social avatar

Privacy badger turned up to max

Evotech ,

The ddg browser on my phone just kinda does it automatically

soggy_kitty ,

Thanks, I just installed it and now I can use the share button to load the article in ddg.

I'll consider switching to it as my default browser if it doesn't let me down over the coming weeks.

Honestly thanks for sharing with your comment

Evotech ,

You're welcome. I've used it for a long time without issues.. take a look at the app tracking protection in the settings too. Works well

cheese_greater ,

One thing Apple device browsers get so right is ReadingMode. Brave and Orion have the best in my opinion but that list is not exhaustive

dotMonkey ,

What's good about Apple device browsers reading mode compared to others?

cheese_greater ,

It takes away all the cookie shit and you can adjust the background to be light, dark, or sepia and manipulate the actual appearence of the text in whatever way is most pleasing for you and you can set it to default to that on all non-search engine pages+easily untoggle it if you need the original appearence

It really cleans it up but I love the making everything dark for night time. Nothing i hate more than bright white backgrounds to articles or pages I wanna read at night without screwing my sleep

dotMonkey ,

Sounds similar to what's available for me on Samsung Browser. I thought these would've been default options on all browsers!

cheese_greater , (edited )

What are the privacy deets for Samsung Browser tho. I try to go for the check mark (No data collected) but thats AppStore stuff. Look into it if you can, I suspect they collect your content/searches and tie it to you

If so, i hope ur behaving u messy beast ;)

SuperSpruce ,

Firefox for Android

cheese_greater ,

I hope this forces their hand in having to allow other actual e2e cloud services, its legititmately bullshit we even need to have this convo :(

lepinkainen ,

I’d love to use my 2TB iCloud with my Android devices

johnyrocket ,

I hope they loose this lawsuit and set a precedent that Samsung also has to follow. At least Samsung gives you the choice between onedrive and Google, but still no choice for generic WebDav...

BaardFigur ,

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

    •
    cheese_greater ,

    That 2

    vox , (edited )
    @vox@sopuli.xyz avatar

    well you can add ftp/sftp/samba storage as "native", just not webdav

    simplejack ,
    @simplejack@lemmy.world avatar

    Apple does let you use any cloud backup service you want… just not for the OS and app preference files. Those go to iCloud, but those are also highly unlikely to hit 5gb.

    When you cloud restore with your media backed up to something like Dropbox, this is what happens.

    1. After logging into iCloud, iOS checks iCloud for the apps you had installed, and it downloads the latest compatible versions from the store. Then, iOS pulls down OS and app preferences from iCloud

    2. Launch Dropbox, or similar, to pull down your backed up media and files.

    Apple gets no money for storage, but Dropbox gets a check.

    sebinspace ,

    After ten years, I hit 5GB. I upgraded to 200GB.

    For $3/month

    There are many, many reasons to bash the shit out of Apple until you’re left with applesauce, and this is the one they chose?

    Whatever, guys..

    cheese_greater , (edited )

    They need to make it your choice (of compliant options where compliant != neutering for the USgovernment) for the default background running option tho, you're not defending the hero we deserve, only what is forced by their lax regulation

    Right now, Apple selectively degrades the experience of effortless syncing thru any other modality than its in-house inferior option. That is wrong and monopolistic and antitrust-worthy action now that the technology is ubiquitous and Applehas the tools to ensure its done consistent with the Apple walled garden gestalt. A gated garden would not be so bad, hell, everybody has one basically

    I can't wait till we get all the Europe stuff! And I'm all in on Apple, i just don't gratuitously defend their nonsense (upvoted by the way, im not the naysayer. You raise an important defense that needs to be dismantled)

    sebinspace ,

    you raise an important defense that needs to be dismantled

    Holy shit. Is.. is that a fucken rational thinker?

    on the Internet‽

    cheese_greater , (edited )

    The Obstacle is the Way bro

    Honestly + selfishly, it makes more sense to uvote for visibillity if you have a child comment you want to be seen so you can

    1. do justice to a thesis you believe is incorrect
    2. Justice can be seen to have been done to the thesis you believe is incorrect

    Its just straightup the most correct approach in my view

    AbackDeckWARLORD ,

    Launch Dropbox, or similar, to pull down your backed up media and files.

    It's not nearly as smooth as having the native solution though, which I believe is what this lawsuit is about. For example, the feature that lets you upload images to iCloud and delete them off your phone, but still have them visible in your photo app comes to mind.

    simplejack ,
    @simplejack@lemmy.world avatar

    You should take a peak at Google photos does on iOS. It’s basically Apple’s photos app, but all connected to Google’s cloud services. You can autobackup, keep stuff mirrored, keep stuff only in the cloud, only local, a mix of both, etc. I don’t know if it’s smart enough to automatically clear up local space if you don’t interact with a file very often, but I don’t see why a 3rd party developer couldn’t build that.

    akilou ,

    “There is no technological or security justification for Apple mandating the use of iCloud for Restricted Files,” the lawsuit reads.

    Wouldn't this argument also be true for everything else Apple restricts you from doing? Texting app, browser, Apple music on a home pod, etc? (I don't have a lot of good examples because I don't have an i thing but I'm sure there are more)

    bitwolf ,

    This is Apple's face falling brick my brick. The app store was just the start

    Natanael ,

    There's already a ruling they have to allow other browser engines

    narc0tic_bird ,
    @narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee avatar

    The lawsuit isn't really about the 5 GB free tier, but about being able to use system services like device backups with other cloud providers.

    Poorly written headline.

    simplejack ,
    @simplejack@lemmy.world avatar

    The actual article headline

    Apple hit with class action lawsuit over iCloud’s 5GB limit and iPhone backup restrictions

    pineapplelover ,

    Ah ok. I was so confused. I still don't know if it's legal.

    simplejack ,
    @simplejack@lemmy.world avatar

    I doubt they’re going to win. Apple does allow file and photo backups to other services. This about backing up OS files like preferences whatnot. Which 5gb is probably way more than enough for.

    KairuByte ,
    @KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    O.o Can you explain how to do nightly backups of your photos and files to external services? Or are you talking about “other apps are allowed to access these files, and you can set up shortcuts to run apps, and those apps can back up the files” which is extremely different than “Apple lets you back the files up.”

    simplejack ,
    @simplejack@lemmy.world avatar

    I’ll speak for Dropbox. Dropbox has a setting for it in the photos app. (I have it off right now)

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/1ad145b8-b297-4b37-bd02-c0a383c4f1c9.jpeg

    And for file, as long as you save your files to your drop box directory, they will be mirrored in the cloud.

    KairuByte ,
    @KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    What you’re talking about is more of a happenstance of other things converging on the ability to do this. Apple doesn’t support it, nor do they care if they break it in the future. Think of it like a workaround that just hasn’t been broken by an update (yet).

    simplejack ,
    @simplejack@lemmy.world avatar

    Apple doesn’t support it, nor do they care if they break it in the future. Think of it like a workaround that just hasn’t been broken by an update (yet).

    This is factually incorrect. They have actively supported this stuff, and most notably, recently released a framework so non-Apple remote storage can reliably integrate into iOS / MacOS without needing to maintain a kernel extension.

    Go look at the developer documentation and the WWDC sessions around file management if you don’t believe me.

    stoly ,

    So they seem to be arguing that Apple isn't spending enough money to offer a free service it never had to offer because reasons.

    Kusimulkku ,

    I mean from the article it seemed like not being able to backup completely to different cloud platforms was the bigger issue

    Thann ,
    @Thann@lemmy.ml avatar

    What!? the company that weaponizes vendor-lockin the most is overcharging for their service!?!?!

    narc0tic_bird ,
    @narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee avatar

    9,99€ per month for 2 TB seems pretty normal to me. Google Drive is the same price iirc, and other providers have similar pricing.

    Fisch ,
    @Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

    That's still expensive tho. After 10 months you could've just bought a 2tb nvme instead. Or a refurbished 10tb HDD.

    narc0tic_bird ,
    @narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee avatar

    Of course, but that's an alternative you still have. As long as you have a computer, you can backup your phone to it just fine. The $100 for the drive also doesn't factor in redundancy, bandwidth cost, power cost and maintenance.

    Fisch ,
    @Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

    You're right about the last part, I didn't think about that. But wasn't the whole point of this that you can only backup your system and app data to iCloud? Can you back that up using a computer as well?

    narc0tic_bird ,
    @narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee avatar

    Yes, you can. If you choose to protect the backup with a password, it's actually a more complete backup as it also backs up things like sessions, so you don't have to login again to most apps after restoring.

    Fisch ,
    @Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

    So it backs up system settings, app data and stuff as well, right? But do you just need a PC for that or does it have to be a Mac?

    narc0tic_bird ,
    @narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee avatar

    Yes, it backs up pretty much everything, including app data. Apps themselves will need to redownload from the App Store though, just like with iCloud backups.

    Apple officially supports device backups on Macs (integrated into Finder) or Windows via this app: https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9np83lwlpz9k

    Fisch ,
    @Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

    Interesting. Still sucks that they don't give you the option to choose a cloud provider for this but I didn't expect them to just let you use your PC.

    willya ,
    @willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

    And you’re able to do that…

    simplejack ,
    @simplejack@lemmy.world avatar

    Meh, they let you use whatever service you want, just not for some of the OS and app preference files - which are well under 5gb.

    If you want to back up your media and docs to Dropbox, go for it.

    AA5B ,

    I could join the 5GB club as well - after maybe ten years in the Apple ecosystem, my iPhone backup is 4.1GB.

    Separately I have 28GB photos that could be synched to any service

    I buy 2TB iCloud because I have multiple devices, share the space with a family of four, and use it for cloud storage from my PC

    ramble81 ,

    This is an extra service they don’t have to offer. If they wanted to they could just drop the free tier altogether. You have space on your phone and you can back it up to your computer as well. I do t see the point of this lawsuit except “wah, they’re not giving me enough stuff for free!”

    LaggyKar , (edited )
    @LaggyKar@programming.dev avatar

    This is an extra service they don’t have to offer.

    No, they could let you use someone else's service instead, but they've chosen to block that.

    you can back it up to your computer as well

    According to the article you literally can't

    Although based on the comments there, the article may be wrong on that point

    reddig33 ,

    The article is wrong.

    stoly ,

    You can still do backups to your desktop like you used to do, it's just not usually necessary.

    theangryseal ,

    I need to get my old shit off of my old computers and move it to iCloud. I’m paying for it, might as well fill it up. I’d like to look at photos without browsing old ass green drives.

    I won’t do it though.

    4am ,

    Amazon Photos works. Dropbox works. NextCloud works. What service are they blocking?

    AProfessional ,

    iCloud backup is core to the OS, all user settings and app data is there. You can manually do it on a Mac apparently but no other service.

    Somethingcheezie ,

    I paid for a MacOS app to do it. Works great

    Syncios or something

    Kusimulkku ,

    Apple nevertheless arbitrarily requires that its mobile device holders use iCloud to back up certain file types—mainly, device settings as well as apps and apps data (“Restricted Files”). With respect to other file types—e.g., photos and videos (“Accessible Files”)—Apple mobile device holders can select from other cloud-based storage providers servicing the market, including Google Drive, Sync.com, pCloud, and others.

    According to the suit

    penquin , (edited )
    @penquin@lemm.ee avatar

    It really sucks what they do. I have an iPad for the kids and it always complains about storage being full and offers me the "upgrade". I will never pay them that $1.

    Edit: "downvotes" don't mean shit on Lemmy, and I'm getting them because I dislike how apple is fucking people side ways. I wasn't gonna say this, but it really is very hard to feel bad for the apple sheep. No matter what apple does they scream "give it to me harder, daddy cook". Stop being loyal to corporations, not a single corporation on earth gives a shit about you. Literally zero.

    brbposting ,

    Disabling iCloud backup should eliminate the upgrade nag. Can tap iCloud (the profile photo) at the top of Settings, and start unchecking. You might have enough space to still back up e.g. contacts, so you shouldn’t have to disable everything.

    penquin ,
    @penquin@lemm.ee avatar

    I'll check that out. Thank you.

    Pika ,

    does it still have the "we noticed you are running out of space, turn on cloud to free up device space" nag? I haven't used apple in years but that one drove me crazy

    brbposting ,

    Good question, it might!

    IamAnonymous ,

    Go to backup settings and turn off photos and messages. You only need essentials like calendar, notes, health, passwords etc.

    penquin ,
    @penquin@lemm.ee avatar

    Thank you. Photos are already off. I'll turn off messages, too. Storage gets filled because my 6 year old daughter loves to make videos of herself pretending she's making YouTube videos showing her toys😂

    cheese_greater ,

    I think a lot of Apple stuff is paid astroturfing. Its so obvious, like a domestic abuse victim or a chump who doesn't realize they're being screwed. It would be fun to watch if they were any other ecosystem inhabitant than the same one I use predominantly

    penquin ,
    @penquin@lemm.ee avatar

    Stockholm syndrome is what it is.

    cheese_greater ,

    This actually

    reddig33 ,

    This is a stupid lawsuit. You can back up your phone locally using iTunes and Finder and the new device app on Windows. You can also back it up using third party software. No one is forcing you to use iCloud.

    Brkdncr ,

    Many services depends on iCloud to work. Message sync and sharing Notes for instance. If your backups are taking up all your storage these things stop working right. It’s dumb.

    IamAnonymous ,

    Messages sync without being on iCloud backup.

    CM400 ,

    You get a free computer with purchase of an iPhone? Neat!

    homesweethomeMrL ,

    What’s a “computer”?

    reddig33 ,

    You get a free backup to the cloud with purchase of a computer? Neat!

    You get a free external backup drive with the purchase of a computer? Neat!

    ___ ,

    Your computer allows you to backup native app data to other cloud drives? Neat!

    simplejack ,
    @simplejack@lemmy.world avatar

    Y’all realize that paying for a backup device has been a thing since the dawn of computing, right?

    It doesn’t matter if the hard drive is in my house, or in a server farm. Someone is going to sell me the space.

    CM400 ,

    I was just trying to point out that not everyone has a computer they can “just” backup to.

    Kusimulkku ,

    Seems the issue is what you can back up on the phone and where

    Apple nevertheless arbitrarily requires that its mobile device holders use iCloud to back up certain file types—mainly, device settings as well as apps and apps data (“Restricted Files”). With respect to other file types—e.g., photos and videos (“Accessible Files”)—Apple mobile device holders can select from other cloud-based storage providers servicing the market, including Google Drive, Sync.com, pCloud, and others.

    ShellMonkey ,
    @ShellMonkey@lemmy.socdojo.com avatar

    Did they previously offer more for free then drop it? I only have a single IPad that's intentionally not cloud synced just because I'd rather host things local, so I'm not in a place to judge average use, but even my Google account has less than 5GB in it.

    Brkdncr ,

    It’s easy to hit 5gb when backing up photos and videos, or message threads that contain photos/video. The space is also shared with the non-backed up data.

    IamAnonymous ,

    It’s been 5gb for 0.99c for more than a decade.

    Brkdncr ,

    I hate this the most about my iPhone. I’m currently on my 3rd Apple device, but you don’t get more storage every time you buy one. So if you have an iPhone and an iPad you’re still stuck with 5gb, and it’s shared with you backups and your cloud-based apps like photo sync, message sync. That 5gb is gone pretty quick.

    It’s easy enough to sync photos elsewhere, but not messages. So the $1/mo storage upgrade becomes really attractive.

    I hope this opens up their backup service but I doubt it.

    reddig33 ,

    Apple gives you free iCloud storage to back up your phone when you get a new device.

    https://support.apple.com/en-us/104980

    You can also sync phone to phone when upgrading as part of the setup assistant, without needing iCloud storage.

    Brkdncr ,

    You don’t get “more” storage though. And if you have even just one iPad your storage is gone really quick between the two devices.

    Dariusmiles2123 ,

    Oh it’s good to know. Thanks

    stoly ,

    It's shared across the account, the devices don't matter. That's what makes it seamless.

    Brkdncr ,

    My issue is that you don’t get more space for each active device you add to the account.

    stoly ,

    And the point is that the data you share across them is identical. Additional devices does not create additional data, your usage of them does.

    Brkdncr ,

    So your live data doesn’t get saved in the device backup?

    stoly ,

    It does--if you are signed in to all locations and have the sync settings turned on across them all, then all data will be uploaded. But if you have more photos across all devices than your plan will allow for upload, then anything extra will no longer upload unless you pay for additional space.

    IamAnonymous ,

    You don’t need to backup messages to iCloud for it to sync across devices. I have multiple iPhones and iPads on one account and don’t come across this issue because I backup photos to my laptop.

    Brkdncr ,

    Your messages share the 5gb space with the backups.

    IamAnonymous ,

    Yes, they do. If you set it up that way to store messages on the cloud.

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