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will_a113 ,

I know this isn't the most popular opinion, but I love self-checkout systems when they're available and used correctly. My local supermarket closed 2 10-item-or-less lanes and put 6 self-checkouts in the same space. I probably make 2 trips/week to the store for fewer than 10 items, and being able to check myself out has been a huge time saver. There are still another 8 lanes with cashiers for larger shopping trips. If the supermarket can avoid the race to the bottom thinking of "well, we replaced 2 lanes, maybe we can also replace the other 8), it'll be a nice compromise.

Now contrast that with my local Home Depot, which typically has 1-2 cashiers MAX at any given time. They have turned the checkout process into a tedious pain in the ass, and I've more or less stopped shopping there as a result.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

When self-checkouts were first rolled out, my friends and I loved them.

As twenty-something introverted nerds, it helped a lot when buying "embarrassing" things like condoms.

You didn't have to have the checkout person giving you the stink-eye because they're ultra religious or something.

Now, twenty-some years on, they've been abused to the point that some places they're all that's ever open, Target and Walmart seem to be the biggest offenders there. When there's a line down three different aisles because the self-checked is so backed up, it's defeated the purpose of creating "efficiency."

However, I've noticed that about a lot of business practices lately. We've rounded the bend and they're still doing things that aren't actually producing efficiency anymore. Like staffing with nothing but a skeleton crew, so anytime someone calls out sick, everything falls apart because you're short a person. Personal opinion, but if one person missing work wrecks everything, that's not an efficient way to schedule people.

It's proof that these MBA business school chucklefucks are just repeating the shit they tell each other ad nauseum, because when it comes to real-world results the results are abysmal and inefficient.

Badeendje ,
@Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

No it's probably the method that lands the most euros into the shareholders pockets, regardless of the effects in other places. Dollarstore in the US is this but then at an extreme, John Oliver did a nice piece on it.

can ,

Link to said piece

cogman ,

The Walmart self checkout layout is generally just bad. Because they are paranoid about theft, it's setup to make it easy for the worker monitoring to make sure nothing fishy is going on. However, that means that the customers that want to checkout often can't see what's open.

This creates lines as the machines aren't fully utilized.

But further, it's often the case that for whatever reason these machines need an employee to interact. With 10 machines running at full capacity, that means longer waits for everyone because 3 machines are waiting for an id badge scan.

Walmart can solve some of these problems with more employees but that cost money.

felbane ,

Walmart is the only place where I've been stopped during the checkout process because the camera system thinks I'm stealing.

I'm a nerd that tries to minmax my self checkout by putting items in the cart or handbasket in a manner conducive to efficient removal. I'll position the cart on my left, scanner in front, bags on right, and go as fast as the scanner will register the barcode and display the item on screen.

This works wonderfully everywhere else and I find it rather fun. I can count on Walmart to flag me at least once every trip (even though I slow down there for this reason), with the screen showing the flashing "POSSIBLE THEFT" message and video of me swiping an item quickly across the reader.

Maybe I should start parking the cart in the middle of the pathway like every other Walmart shopper and taking twenty seconds to dig every item out of the bottom of the cart before meandering around looking for where I set down the handheld scanner.

Hamartiogonic , (edited )
@Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz avatar

That’s just lean. If one employee is sick, everything falls apart. If the delivery of a specific part to the production line is delayed, everything stops.

It’s all very intentional, because it’s lean. Having buffers of any kind costs money, while making everything lean makes it cheaper to run your company. As usual, all of this is also reflected on profits and dividend income.

edit: splling and gremmar

nilloc ,

And it pushes the cost of redundancy into the backs of the workers who didn’t call in sick, and have to work more hours or more tasks in a day or risk being responsible for an underperforming store.

If it actually hurt monthly profits, they wouldn’t do it. The fact that it may hurt longer term profits—through delays, employee retention, or quality control—either isn’t understood by the C suite, or they just don’t care.

RattlerSix ,

Your store did it smart. My local grocery store has 8 self checkouts by one door and 8 more on the other end by the other door. Although there are 10 or more normal checkouts with human cashiers, Ive never seen more that two open at a time.

CheesyGordita ,

They’re a godsend at Costco when I have like 5 items and the normal lines are super long.

mp3 ,
@mp3@lemmy.ca avatar

My supermarket implemented these barcode scanner you can carry in the store so that you can scan and put your stuff in your grocery bags in your cart as you go, as well as some scales so that you can also scan those items paid by weight, which you can then scan at the self-checkout terminal. They also spot-check every 4th scanners and scan for random items in the cart to make sure you actually added them to your list as a theft-deterrent.

It's way faster and less finicky than dealing with the scale that checks if you added the item you just scanned (and complains often that something's wrong).

I hope this kind of system will stay, it's really nice going to a self-checkout terminal and pay with your bags already filled.

CarbonIceDragon ,
@CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social avatar

when I worked at a grocery store for a bit (until a year go), we had that kind of system alongside the regular and self checkouts. It was interesting to see as I had never heard of it before, but it was very fast when it worked. That being said, almost nobody actually used it, and whenever the random checks happened it was almost always when someone had bought more items than usual (not sure if that actually triggers anything or if it was just coincidence) and the system for looking through everything was frustratingly slow for both me and the customers. I feel like the scanners are a great idea, but the theft-deterrent system for it could use a rethink, though Im not sure what exactly could best replace it

Rivalarrival ,

Meijers uses your own phone and their app as the scanner. GF loves it, but I find it's more of a pain in the ass than it's worth.

The only advantages I've seen are that you can use your own bags, and that nobody else uses it, so there are always 4 kiosks available to finalize your transaction.

ColeSloth ,

Yeah. I'm fine with using them at wal mart most of the time, but the grocery store where I load up at once every other week just went full send on self checkout and outside of being a pita dealing with so many bags and no place to set them without going into the cart with stuff you haven't even scanned yet, some have a stupid conveyor belt after you scan and if you let like ten items get on it the damned machines locks you out until a worker comes by and unlocks it after the belt has been cleared off. Total piece of junk, but there's now usually only 1 real person.

LordKitsuna ,

Is there something weird about how your Home Depot did it? I absolutely love the self-checkout at the Home Depots in my state. They all have the wireless hand scanners so I just pull my cart up, beep beep beep beep beep beep beep and off I go I fucking hated before they had self checkout at Home Depots it always took for fucking ever now I'm in and out regardless of whether I need one thing or 20 things

will_a113 ,

There are two in my area and both have the same problem: there will be a single non-pro bank of 8 self-checkout lanes, and then a bunch of empty lanes, one or two of which will have cashiers. Of the 8 self check-outs , one or two are always broken, so that leaves 6. Add in a bunch of large/heavy/bulky items that are hard to scan and now the line for self check-out is pushed back into the store, blocking multiple lanes and aisles. And as soon as you have certain items in your cart (molding/lumber by the LF, loose fasteners, etc.) you need an assistant to come help you anyway. Maybe it's just the customers in my stores, but it's just a terrible, slow, inefficient process.

LordKitsuna ,

Maybe it is just the customers in your area, mine is usually not backed up. I don't have any problem with the various loose items there is always a barcode somewhere and if I don't see one on the product I'll take a picture of the one on the Shelf so I can just scan it right off my phone at the checkout¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Mojojojo1993 ,

Fuck this bullshit article.

I fucking love self service. I don't want to deal with people.

Just let me buy my stuff and get out. I don't want or need small talk.

I want the disgusting supermarket shop to be as cold and sterile as possible.

I bring my own bag. I'd Honestly rather just scan everything as I go. And just pay as I walk out.

Current system is stupid. Walk around shop picking things up. Then take everything out and rebag

spinelessorange ,

There are stores trialling exactly your preferred method. One of my local supermarket chains has portable barcode scanners on a wall. You pick one up, scan your groceries as you collect them, then take the scanner to a self checkout that links to the scanner. At that point you pay for your items and leave.

icedterminal ,

Best Buy started doing this with their app. I've used it multiple times already. It's so convenient. Scan the barcode with your camera in the app, it adds to the cart, pay when you're done.

Anecdotal experience: Unfortunately, products that are locked up create a problem. I went in for two items. One of which was a single RAM stick for laptops. The employee refused to give me it even though I was literally going to pay for it on the spot as I had already collected the other item I wanted. He insisted it goes to the register per policy. I quickly got the barcode as he held it, then paid. "There. Paid for. See" as I showed him the screen. Dude was so annoyed as he handed me the RAM.

Mojojojo1993 ,

Yup had these a few years ago in UK. Just not all shops do it.

Willy ,

They aren’t just trialing it. I’ve been shopping this way for 15 years. Once the system was down so I went to another location. I won’t shop without a handheld scanner ever again.

lemmytellyousomething ,

small talk? If you start small talk in Germany, the cashier will probably be confused...

Mojojojo1993 ,

Note to self. Move to Germany.

To do list

Learn German.
Get a German job

Cheap ass rent control. C'mon.

Bratwurst. Kick on

lemmytellyousomething ,

When interacting with the bus driver, make sure to say only "Hallo" when you step in. Technically, this is even optional and only 33% do that.

When leaving the bus, don't say anything. It'd be weird.

And under no circumstances, talk to them between entering and leaving.

The only legitimate way to talk to them is when the bus stopped, you and the driver are both outside and he or she approaches you first.

SlopppyEngineer ,

Whoa there, overachiever. Saying "hello"? A curt smile, a slight nod and a passing glance. All things in moderation, after all.

lemmytellyousomething ,

We don't smile here, unless there is a good reason.

You need to learn a lot before moving here!!!!!!!!!!11

Mojojojo1993 ,

I don't smile so if fit right in

lemmytellyousomething ,

Sehr gut.

philpo ,

Nah, when you are on a late night run on an (almost, max. 2 pax) empty bus, especially the last run, especially in shitty weather, it's appropriate to say "Nacht" when you leave.

You form a special bond then and there. The driver is your hero who brings you home in the most shittiest shift.

Mojojojo1993 ,

Literally the opposite of Scotland. Must say thanks or cheers when leaving bus. Weird not to

lemmytellyousomething ,

This is like applauding the pilot after they do the absolute minimum of their job (landing the plane).......

Mojojojo1993 ,

Just common decently. Thanking a cashier. For doing their job. A sales person. A doctor/ nurse.

A cleaner. Just polite

SlopppyEngineer ,

I stopped using them. It's always something, requiring me to wait for and deal with people.

The rack with the mobile scanners is full, and scanner not in the rack is not paying, so flag someone to deal with it.

The thing double scanned an item, and it takes someone from the shop to remove the scan, so wait and then explain.

I had a coupon, but the system can't deal with those. Again wait and explain.

And because now apparently I'm a trouble maker I get flagged for a random check by the system regularly. Again wait and deal with that.

On average, it turned out to be less waiting and dealing with people by getting in line at the regular cashier.

Chreutz ,

Scan and Go is becoming very wide spread in Denmark. It's lovely! Cuts down the time for a quick shopping trip on the way home from work to less than half

Mojojojo1993 ,

Had it in the UK. Just not all shops. Needs to be more widespread

PixTupy , (edited )

I always use the store app to scan as I shop and just pay at the machines at the exit here in Portugal. Hate shopping any other way.

CyanFen ,

What you're requesting is exactly how Amazon fresh works. the cart itself has barcode scanners on it

Mojojojo1993 ,

Boo Amazon. But great idea

OhShitSon ,

That system has been a thing for at least a decade in most supermarkets in Sweden, is it not a thing in (I assume) the US?

Mojojojo1993 ,

Assumption wrong.

Although may be correct. I don't know USA shops.

In the UK some shops have had them for 10 + years but not all shops. Lidl for example did not.

Although my current area is NZ. Some shops again do have them but not all.

nicetriangle ,

Yeah the little self scanner thing you can take around the store as you shop is not much of a thing in the US.

YerbaYerba ,

My local grocery store does it with their smartphone app. I shop this way almost every time. Bag as I go, then stop at a special self checkout at the end to pay.

snowe ,
@snowe@programming.dev avatar

Your grocery store has cell service? I lose all service the second I step inside mine

YerbaYerba ,

They have wifi! The cell service is crap though.

Onii-Chan ,

That's fucking brilliant and would actually make me not hate shopping with a passion. That system just makes so much more sense.

Tikiporch ,

You can do scan and go at Walmart now, if you were previously only using that at Sam's Club. It's fantastic.

Mojojojo1993 ,

Check out USA. Not behind on tech. Congratulations

WHYAREWEALLCAPS ,

Last I checked you had to be a Walmart+ member to do that. It used to be available to everyone, but then they put it behind paying them a monthly fee to be able to do it.

DrRatso ,

Is self scan that rare around you? One of our (Latvia) two big brand supermarkets have scanners you carry around, then deposit at the slef checkout lines. The other one, however, I just scan everything with my phone, then at checkout scan a QR code with my phone and pay.

Mojojojo1993 ,

Yeah unfortunately don't have those at our nearest places. But I know the UK had lots of them

TheSanSabaSongbird ,

Sure, it works great if you're a single person who doesn't have all that much to buy, but here's the thing; if you're shopping for a family or a multi person household or whatever, and you have to buy a lot of things at once, your self checkouts just plain suck ass because pretty much no matter what you do, you'll get dinged with an error message every ten or 12 items and have to wait for the overworked and underpaid attendant to come free you up so you can keep going until the next inevitable fuckup.

Self checkout is fine if you have something like 15 or less items, but anything more than that and it's more trouble than it's worth.

rabiddolphin ,
@rabiddolphin@lemmy.world avatar

Jeez you sure love working for free

SnotFlickerman , (edited )
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Oh no, did your attempt to cut labor costs and make shoppers do more of the labor that checkers used to do end up increasing shrink?

Oh no, how awful for you that you aren't able to properly afford more *checks notes... Stock Buybacks.

https://media1.tenor.com/m/_BIfNDiEmNQAAAAd/crying-wiping-tears-with-money.gif

This is how I imagine retailers complaining about this.

Badeendje ,
@Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

Not only that, but the reduced shrink during Covid, tucked up to "normal" levels.. but this was then presented as a 100pct increase compared to last year.. and thus a huuuge increase.

SnotFlickerman , (edited )
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I mean to be fair, everyone pulled that shit.

The jobs numbers tanking during COVID because everyone had to be let go or furloughed apparently has nothing to do with Biden "bringing America more jobs faster than any previous President" bullshit.

Nah dude, the jobs that left just came back, you didn't do shit to make that happen, Biden.

As a Democrat voter, makes me sick how hard they are back to pushing "The economy is doing great, you whiners need to just fucking vote for us already, all right!" while holding Trump and Fascism over our heads like a veritable Sword of Damocles. They don't feel the need to do more because it's easier to sit on their haunches and yell "But if you don't vote for us, Trump will turn the US into a fascist state" as if that isn't an implicit admission that they won't do anything to stop Trump if he wins (even illegitimately!!!) and will let him run roughshod over US citizens as punishment for not voting Democrat sufficiently enough.

kaitco ,

Not just that. When self-checkouts were first introduced, the argument was that even with the added shrink, the benefits outweighed the costs of employing an actual person. Now, of course, the shrink rates have no longer made this profitable and shareholders are crying.

Personally, I’m fine with self-checkout since I can bag my own groceries exactly how I want them and without having to interact with anyone. That said, I will not be stopping for anyone to check my receipt and my items. If they don’t want the possibility of shrink, then they shouldn’t have gone this route in the first place.

Kazumara ,

Sounds like low trust society issues to be honest. I only see those systems expanding in Switzerland, and they never use annoying scales or complain about unexpected items, because there aren't even any sensors for that.

lemmyvore ,

Over here it's a mix, some chains use the scales + sensors, some use simple scan machines. I absolutely hate the scale + sensors, some of them are almost completely unusable and the attendants have to keep running around fixing errors or resetting the ones where people just give up mid-cart and go to a manned checkout.

beeb ,

Can confirm. The only deterrent is the potential for an random bag check by an employee but that never happened to me in years of using self checkout. Some shops have a worker over watching a dozen of stations to help out or just identify suspicious behavior but it's very unintrusive.

Buttons ,
@Buttons@programming.dev avatar

I've been a checker and have monitored self-checkouts. We get no training or instructions to watch for suspicious behavior. It's not the job of a checker / cashier to confront people for suspicious behavior, we don't get paid enough to do so, or to even care.

withabeard ,

So much chocolate weighed through the scales as "fresh veg potatoes"

beeb , (edited )

Thanks for the clarification! My assumptions were wrong ^^ although I saw once a lady who tried to leave without paying, but the worker noticed and they spent a good 5 minutes convincing her to put in cash into the machine, which apparently she had but had to look for in her bag for a looong time.

JohnEdwa ,
@JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz avatar

Here in Finland handheld scanners have been getting added to more shops, you grab one, scan and bag as you go, and at the end you return the scanner and pay it all at once.

MirthfulAlembic ,
@MirthfulAlembic@lemmy.world avatar

One of the regional grocery stores in my part of the US has these (if you have an account). Before I did online ordering with curbside pickup, this was how I shopped. I didn't understand why it wasn't more popular. It made checking out so quick. Every twenty or so trips I'd be randomly "audited," where some poor employee had to rifle through my bags to double check I wasn't stealing anything.

frosty ,
@frosty@pawb.social avatar

We used to have this (scan-as-you-shop) at Wegman's in the northeast US, but at some point they decided to withdraw the program to re-think on it.

jol ,

The chance to be randomly audited would put me off from ever using it again. Specially when you know that randomly = you look brown or immigrant most of times.

flumph ,
@flumph@programming.dev avatar

At Giant, I'm pretty sure it's decided by the system based on some algorithm, not the employee. The one time I was audited, we were in the store for a long time and had removed a few items from the cart after adding them.

The audit consisted of the employee scanning ten random items and confirming we had scanned them too.

raynethackery ,

When I was using food stamps/EBT, I was audited every time I used the hand scanner at Stop and Shop. Luckily, I don't have to use food stamps anymore.

flumph ,
@flumph@programming.dev avatar

Well that's some bull. The software knows what items are covered and which aren't, so that's just assuming folks needing help are thieves.

raynethackery ,

Yeah, luckily an Aldi opened down the street and I started shopping there. I don't need food stamps now but with the way prices are going...

jol ,

Ah, yes, yes. We're not racist, it's the system! It's an algorithm! I never heard that one before. It's also a sustym that randomly checks you at the airport.

Nollij ,

It all depends on how truly random the system is. Each checkout (or ticket, or whatever) assigned a random number between 1 and 20, with 20 meaning audit? That's non-discriminatory. But it's also not tuned for the purpose of finding shoplifters (etc).

When you start adding criteria, they are often at least correlated with discrimination. Food stamps were mentioned elsewhere. Flight history to/from a list of hostile countries for airports. The list goes on. Technically not based on things like race, but it's a paper-thin distinction in some cases.

jol ,

How do you know there's not someone looking at se purity cameras triggering random audits?

Nollij ,

Then that's not random by any definition of the word. It's targeted.

It's entirely possible, even likely, that management would keep claiming that it's random when it's not. But then we're not talking about any algorithms.

jol ,

That's the point I'm making.

hulemy ,
@hulemy@ani.social avatar

We have both happen, sometimes combined or scan with phone. I've seen some of the American systems, with sensors and weights and speakers (with some voice lines), those are creepy to me.

crazyCat ,

For sure, I use self checkout at at least 5 different places in China and they all work fantastically, including a Walmart.

grabyourmotherskeys ,

To be fair, anything that allows a Swiss person to avoid small talk will be overwhelming popular.

NegativeInf ,

Am.. am I swiss?

nbafantest ,

All of Lemmy is Swiss apparently

moitoi , (edited )

My guess is that we are half of the population on lemmy.

moitoi ,

I avoid places where self checkout isn't available. And, it's not just me. I stopped counting how many time the cashier is jobless and the self checkout area is full.

Kusimulkku ,

I love self-checkout. Faster, don't have to rush because someone is waiting for me, don't have to interact with people, can easily double check it had the correct price etc. They're fantastic

SkyNTP ,

It's faster until you need the human operator to keep coming over because the anti-theft sensors keep getting tripped up by false positive readings. Or you need to find some vegetable code that a normal cashier has memorized.

Self checkout is great when it's done well, and total shit when poorly executed. And unfortunately, it's not always just a matter of technology (which normally keeps improving); it's often a matter of business model: sometimes customer convenience is really important, other times loss prevention (which creates frustration) is more important.

I've seen countless good self-checkout experiences backslide into crap experience because the business felt that a controlled client is more profitable than a convenienced client.

LifeOfChance ,

I hear this argument frequently but I'm curious how often does this happen to you where you need assistance? I've used SCO for as long as it's been around and I could probably count on 1 hand missing some fingers where I needed help. Sure back in the day with the faulty scales that kept tripping it was rough but manageable. I don't say any of this with malice I'm just curious if it's you or if you speak of a lot of people. If it's the later wouldn't it just make sense that maybe all the people struggling may just have difficulties with technology as a whole and not just the SCO?

I truly mean no ill intent or hatred as I ask these types of questions as a way to learn and grasp the realities of others since no one person can know and see all.

numberfour002 ,

In the USA at least, any time you buy alcohol, tobacco, or any number of other random things that the retailer decides to flag as requiring ID, then you'll need assistance from a cashier. Random things include razor blades, compressed air, some herbal supplements, spray paint, butane torches, or any of dozens of other items. Any time you accidentally scan something twice, you'll need a cashier's assistance. Any time something rings up the wrong price or any time the UPC doesn't scan, you'll need a cashier's assistance. Also, if you're buying gift cards, you may need a cashier's assistance.

Also, different stores have different machines and different machines work better than others. Many places have ridiculously sensitive machines that freeze up if so much as a fruit fly farts on it. Some places use "AI cameras" to detect theft, which basically the algorithm for that seems to be "If (customer scanned something OR customer didn't scan something) then (theft, so freeze and call cashier for assistance)".

So, the frequency is highly variable. For some stores, I can usually manage to get by with almost never needing assistance. For others, it's practically every visit.

ARg94 ,

This is an important point. The execution of self-checkout seems to vary widely. I have only experienced poor executions like you described. I think a scan and go system sounds great and I would interested to see one tested at a shop in my area.

SilverFlame ,

Fun fact: PLU's (Product Lookup Units) are searchable on Google, though it'll look like you're just on your phone while at the register

bus_factor ,

At my grocery store the line for self checkout is longer than for the registers, so people would very much be waiting for you. And instead of the time the cashier takes to scan all your stuff being out of your control, they'll judge you personally for being slow instead.

gamermanh ,
@gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

they'll judge you personally for being slow instead.

If you're slow because you're old or disabled, it is what it is. I might even help if I'm up front.

If you're tired or something but clearly trying, it is what it is, people judging you are the dicks.

If you're on your cell phone, or not paying attention, or so incapable of reading that you have to call over a Walmart employee to tell you that yes, that says napkins on the monitor (actual thing I saw once and yes it's cuz she couldn't read, she said so): you deserve the judging.

Kusimulkku ,

Even with the same lenght line, in here you'd get through much faster because instead of lining up for the one register you're lining up to several self-checkouts

bus_factor ,

But the people at the self checkouts do it at a fourth of the speed, so it cancels out. Plus the line for the self checkouts is four times as long anyway.

Although it's not always easy to predict how long something takes. Self checkout is less vulnerable to someone paying in all nickels or having an issue with their food stamps. I'll take that chance to not have to stand there and guess what species of banana I'm trying to buy, though.

Kusimulkku ,

Not here, people at the self check-outs go fast because they usually have less stuff and slower boomers are afraid of them anyway so they'll be out of your way.

I'll take that chance to not have to stand there and guess what species of banana I'm trying to buy, though.

Here you weight your vegetables, fruits, candies in the shop before you go to the checkout. Apart from Lidl which has either the cashier weighting them for you at the register or you'll weight them at the checkout. But it's the odd one out

bus_factor ,

I remember we weighed our own vegetables in Norway in the 90s. It stopped when they got the fancy registers which scanned barcodes and had a built-in scale.

Kusimulkku ,

I hope they don't change it here. I like weighing my own stuff. Nicer to check how much I got and no need to remember what sort of tomatoes I got since the number is in the price tag. And no way for the cashier to fuck me over by weighing them as a pricier thing.

Spanish tomatoes for the price of Finnish ones? Get the fuck out of here! What do I look like, fucking Croesus??

bus_factor ,

You've presumably had registers with barcodes for several decades now, so I'm guessing your way of weighing produce is pretty safe.

Facebones ,

I don't mind self checkout.

I mind that I need the one employee overseeing 12 checkouts every other scan because the system decides something is wonky. I mind that it now has AI that assures said single employee that I'm fleecing them for an $0.80 can of tomato sauce and I now have to wait for this person to dig through my 3 bags looking for this hoisted sauce.

If they're so determined that every customer is lifting everything at checkout all the time - if only there was a way they could have an employee verify every item gets scanned, every time, perhaps by doing it themselves. Then we could wait in a line and feed our items to them so they can rest easy knowing everything was scanned appropriately. Oh, what science fiction Dreams I have.

ExfilBravo ,

Or just RFID chip all the food items and I just walk out of the store and it charges me later based on what I walked out with. If no account exists automatic deployment of security personnel to catch the thief.

Facebones ,

I went to one of Amazon's spots in NYC, it was neat but it feels sus as hell just moseying out of the store 😂

Buddahriffic ,

No, don't add more waste to packaging.

nixcamic ,

This exactly.

Also trying to fit a bunch of awkward stuff off the scale and some of it is leaning against the edge and you have to balance everything just right cause heaven forbid it be off by a gram. Or it getting stuck because a bag doesn't weigh enough to register.

Like if you don't trust me fine but don't half ass it. If I'm gonna steal something from a grocery store it's gonna way more than a gram and sure as heck isn't gonna be an empty plastic bag.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

The only people I've ever encountered IRL or online that can't stand self check out are dumbass boomers that can't figure out how to use them correctly. This article has the same energy as those articles that claim people don't want to work from home.

ThatWeirdGuy1001 ,
@ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

My only critique of self checkout is, when the machine has an error, or if I'm buying alcohol, I have to wait 5 minutes for someone to come fix the problem because there's 10 self checkout kiosks, but only one employee tending them.

linearchaos ,
@linearchaos@lemmy.world avatar

That and if your buying more than 20 items and it's a scale.you know after about half a cart it's going to start bitching at you.

ThatWeirdGuy1001 ,
@ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

"Please place item in bagging area. UNEXPECTED ITEM IN BAGGING AREA!!!"

linearchaos ,
@linearchaos@lemmy.world avatar

Please wait for assistance. meanwhile our cashier is busy helping terminal one be allowed buy floor stocked nasal decongestant, terminal three is waiting to be authorized to buy a lighter, and the person at terminal four can't figure out the pad is asking them for their loyalty number and has a coupon they'd like to use.

fidodo ,

I just don't use self checkout when buying alcohol or big carts since it's too cramped. At least at all the stores I've been to the attendant is always available so I never have to wait if something goes wrong. Maybe it depends on how tech savvy the area you're in is?

barsoap ,

Over here in Germany you can prove your age with your girocard, your bank knows whether you're over 16/18 and relaying that information is good enough in the eyes of the law.

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

There are pretty strict alcohol laws in the US compared to a lot of countries, I couldn't see this system working here because people would argue teens or whoever would use their parents card or ID. The drinking age being 21 here makes it different I think, there aren't so many under 18 that would really want to drink that would abuse the system, but since you have to be 21 to buy alcohol there are plenty of people in the 16-20 range that would take advantage I'm sure.

barsoap ,

I think the age check requires a PIN, noone but the owner of the card is supposed to have it. Dunno whether the check shows up on the transaction history it probably should.

Germany is actually kinda strict about age checks, it's the reason why not a single porn site is hosted here they'd all need that level of age auth. OTOH it's also understood that kids will find ways to circumvent things and that's also fine because you can't stop them anyway, if they do so sensibly you can ignore it and if they're not being sensible you can whip out the good ole "I'm not mad, I'm disappointed", either way they learned something about responsibility. Learning to keep your parents on a need-to-know basis is a rite of passage.

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

That sounds like a very reasonable way to view it haha, plenty of parents do view the things their kids do in that way and teach them to be sensible, I was lucky to be raised that that way. Many parents here are not that reasonable though and will use as much force as they can to keep their kids from doing things they don't want them to, and are happy to use the law to help with that, one way by supporting strict enforcement of drinking and drug laws. From the last stats I remember seeing the US actually has worse rates of alcoholism and alcohol related illness than Germany also!

fidodo ,

The machines had problems like 10 years ago, but I've had zero problems with them in recent years. Used to be a few of them were always broken and bulk items were hard to find, but now I've not run into any problems. They're great for small purchases, but they're too cramped for big purchases so the belts are still needed.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

Walmart, at least, has belted self-checkout lanes in addition to the little ones. Sucks that, at least at my local one, they're almost never actually running, and neither are the manned lanes with belts.

endhits ,

I see you've never had to use Kroger self checkouts. It's almost like they're purpose built to slow you down.

shuzuko ,

They got worse recently, too, at least locally. You can't even turn off the insistent voice anymore, so now I have to hear it repeat "please scan your next item and place it in the bag" a dozen times, usually cut off because it takes longer for the damn machine to say that than it does for me to actually scan shit. And now they've added cameras which get easily confused if you, like me, usually just hold your few items in your hands while you're scanning, thinking you're trying to "dupe" the scanner.

Auli ,

I use them but don't like them. Putting people out of work should not be the goal. I mean it's like the manufactured this only have one or two tills open at a time. Then bring in self checkouts to fix the issue the problem. They could have had more cashiers in the first place.

Lesrid ,

It's not about putting people out of work, it's about making the people you're selling to work for free. Bananas aren't any cheaper so I see no reason to use self-checkout

Delta_V ,

Jobs that don't pay a living wage should not exist. Imagine if our ancestors had accepted spending 200 calories to hunter/gather 100 calories worth of food. Low wage jobs are a trap that send people deeper into poverty.

Also, putting all people out of work forever should be the ultimate goal - automate all the things!

rabiddolphin ,
@rabiddolphin@lemmy.world avatar

If another human being speaks to me I run home and tweet about it

iarigby ,

What are they talking about, self checkouts are great. It makes the shopping experience more fair for those with fewer items

AnomanderRake ,

I feel the people who don't like self checkout keep trying to push the idea that it's bad or putting people out of jobs, rather than just admitting it's convenient for most people. If i want to buy one or two items I don't want to queue up behind 5 people with a full trolley.

mint_tamas ,

I don’t like self checkouts, but not because of that. Probably depends on what chains you go to / where in the world you live, but it was almost always very slow and full of errors for me (most of the time, incorrectly detecting the weight of either side, thus stopping the whole process and making me wait for a human to unlock it). And even if everthing goes well, I have no chance to even reach half the speed that a cashier can.

The one exception is a clothing store that used RFID tags. You put the items in the box and everything is instantly scanned, no mistakes. If it were like that everywhere, I would much prefer it.

AnomanderRake ,

I've never seen a clothing store using RFID tags before but that's quite interesting technology. I've just done some reading up on it and I hope more places start using it it seems convenient and something I'd like to see adopted on a large scale.

GreatAlbatross ,
@GreatAlbatross@feddit.uk avatar

It's pretty great. Though I'm sure it's built into the price (assuming they're talking about Uniqlo).

On the other hand, being able to walk into the supermarket, fill a trolly, then walk through an archway to get rung up...That would be pretty amazing.

havocpants ,

Don't know what country you're in, but Decathlon in the UK (and possibly other countries) does this. There are no traditional manned checkouts in there at all.

Nollij ,

This is a very good point- consider all of the friction points that make self-checkout slow and cumbersome. How many of them apply to manned checkouts?

The weight thing is absolutely the most frustrating, and I would put money that it's not an effective theft deterrent.

I don't know if it's intentional, but the places around me seem to have largely solved the problem of cashiers being faster, by putting the slowest people on earth as cashiers...

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

If it always has issues it makes sense you wouldn't like it, where I use it there are rarely any errors and there are usually regular cashiers still if you don't want to self checkout, personally I'd rather scan my groceries than have someone else do it. I do agree it would be much better if they had an RFID system like you mention though.

topinambour_rex ,
@topinambour_rex@lemmy.world avatar

Before they put self checkout, we had a fast lane, 10items max. Now no more of fast lane.

EncryptKeeper ,

Most grocery stores I’ve been to in the U.S. have regular self checkout and express checkout 10 items or fewer.

T156 ,

Especially those ones where you can grab a hand scanner to scan your items as you go, and use it to put everything into the terminal when paying.

Spedwell ,

Having express self-checkoit is great. The Kroger near me went full-self-checkout. They have large kiosks that mimmic the traditional checkout belt kiosks, except the customer scans at the head of the belt and the items move into the bagging area.

If you have a full cart, you scan all the items, checkout, walk to the end of the belt, and bag all of your items. Takes twice as long as bagging while a cashier scans (for solo shoppers), and because of the automatic belt the next customer cannot start scanning until you finish bagging, or their items will join the pile of your items.

It effectively destroys all parallelism is the process (bagging while scanning, customers pre-loading their items with a divider while the prior customer is still being serviced), and with zero human operated checkouts running you get no choice

Nollij ,

Depending on the system you have, some of them have a divider bar halfway down for that exact purpose.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

If you have a full cart, you scan all the items, checkout, walk to the end of the belt, and bag all of your items.

Okay? But there's no cost savings on my end and I don't have all the codes memorized, so it takes longer than if a dedicated employee handled it.

with zero human operated checkouts running you get no choice

The humans are still there, though. They're hovering over your shoulder to make you did the job right and you're not buying booze under-aged and you didn't steal anything. All the business has done is off-load the manual labor onto the customer and slowed down the checkout process as a result.

Spedwell ,

Yeah, I was complaining too. Or am I not understanding you?

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Definitely crossed our wires.

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I have a lot of anxiety, sure I can just 'get over it' or ignore it and go to the actual cashier, but I love having the ability to scan things myself, it is also much quicker because I usually have less items than most. They still have the employee there, there are still other cashiers so I've never seen it get too hectic where I go.

PixelProf ,

I almost exclusivity self-checkout for groceries, and it had drastically sped up my checkout time as most people in my area opt to use traditional checkout and the stores are still keeping lots of lanes open (just closing the express lanes). The last 3 times I've used a non-self checkout, each time I was double charged for items or didn't have reduced prices applied and didn't notice because I was bagging.

Aermis ,

Same but mostly because I like to scan each item and see it associated with the price on the screen before adding another item

PixelProf ,

That too, and I can really efficiently manage the items going into bags given I backpack my groceries and want pretty specific configurations...

MashedTech ,

Oh my god, YES. With the cashier I feel rushed and packing is a mess..

rabiddolphin ,
@rabiddolphin@lemmy.world avatar

Don't forget to sweep the floors and bring in the carts

MashedTech ,

I use self checkout on the machines that don't weigh what you buy. Those work so well. The kind that have to weigh what you buy are slow and they always have an issue when I put items in bulk on them. Like two cans of beer if I don't set both of them down at once it just breaks down and tells me I have the wrong weight in any configuration.

PixelProf ,

Totally agree. I forgot about those, as I've only encountered the weighing ones once in the past very long time and it was a mess, I can totally get hate if weighing ones are the only experience with them.

themurphy ,

Ehm, it's pretty much a success where I'm from. Sounds more like a personal opinion.

ooli OP ,

they back it up with companies rellying heavily on self chekout losing more money

Plavatos ,

Not sure about down vote(s), that's what it says.

Although here's my prediction: this is the start of yet another narrative to justify why food prices must go up (to satisfy investors and line pockets).

Start planting that seed now, "sorry folks, self check out is losing us money, we have to increase prices another 10%!"

turmacar ,

Would be curious if that's actually the case or if it's just the next iteration of the "organized theft is causing billions in lost profit" from last year that was just BS.

Reality and the current narrative a C-level is pushing to get the result they want ain't always all that similar.

AA5B ,

I don’t get their point that shoppers “need to be socialized into using self-checkout”. Who ever needed to be persuaded? It’s just that they try hard to make it painful. Self checkout was always an over-complicated conglomeration of parts with poor usability, then poorly thought out additions to try to control theft and no counter space . It just never works well. Maybe we should “socialize” retailers into getting their shit together she it can work more smoothly

homesweethomeMrL ,

Consumers want this technology to work, and welcomed it with open arms.

That’s an actual sentence from that actual article. The fuck? I read it, like, four times. Is that even - what??

guyrocket ,
@guyrocket@kbin.social avatar

I think I used self checkout once in my life. I very quickly realized that they're pushing their work onto me and never went to self checkout again.

I also think those jobs matter. Not great jobs, sure. But they are jobs. I'm sure tech will eliminate cashier jobs someday but I don't see self checkout doing so.

AA5B ,

Those jobs may be important but they’re not the customer’s responsibility. My goal is to get out of there as conveniently as possibly for me, and sometimes that involves self-checkout.

Of course I was recently on the other side of this conversation when trying to buy beer at self-checkout. The other person claimed it’s easy, but I claimed the extra steps and edit made it less convenient

gladflag ,

I hate self checkout because they make the system frustrating as if they don’t trust you. Which they don’t. So they make it weigh items and it yells if you’re too slow putting the item in the bagging area.

If you don’t trust me to do it. Pay someone else to do it.

avater ,
@avater@lemmy.world avatar

Problem is they save on the humans so you have to do their work too but you don't see any price reduction or benefit for doing so, and that is on top of all the usability issues...

Smoogs ,

It gets better, they’ve converted the Walmart tech help for the self checkout into sales people for their master card now.

shea ,

some terminals have 2 or even 3 cameras pointed at you, displaying on the screen so you know for sure they don't trust you. they're probably scanning your face nowadays too so they track individual purchase history

RagingRobot ,

I think self checkout is a good way for stores to get more customers through faster but the stores seem to think they are a replacement for human cashiers and they are not at all. They are nice to have in addition to human cashiers.

notasandwich1948 ,

self checkout is a default for me

MedicPigBabySaver ,
@MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world avatar

My own bag. Hand scanner. Zip through the store while loading my bag. Easy check out. Hell no I don't want to use the cashier line.

Snekeyes ,

I don't think that's what the article is talking about. The cart and hand scanner are different.

MIDItheKID ,

I know entirely too many people who don't use the hand scanner, and it's crazy to me. It is by far the most efficient way to shop. I get irrationally angry when there are people in the self checkout line with a whole cart of groceries. This line is not for you. Get with the times.

MedicPigBabySaver ,
@MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world avatar

Ha, as if.

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