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nodsocket , to Technology in Mozilla’s ”Platform Tilt” Shows How Firefox Is Harmed by Apple, Microsoft

Can't view article without disabling adblocker, didn't read

YourAvgMortal ,

The article is behind the Adblock banner. You could use reader mode (if you have it), or block the banner itself

nodsocket ,

No

4am ,

Sound like a “you” problem

homesweethomeMrL ,

No there isn’t

Mooseshroom ,

There's literally a link that says "continue without disabling"

bluey ,

works fine with ublock

ikidd ,
@ikidd@lemmy.world avatar

Not sure what trash adblocker you run, but it doesn't even send up a warning for UBO.

V0lD ,

Not everything that isn't ublock is automatically bad. Especially if you just want an adblocker and not also all the other stuff it comes with

hedgehog ,

Not everything that isn't ublock is automatically bad.

No, but if a product fails to do the one thing it was made to do, it’s bad.

Especially if you just want an adblocker and not also all the other stuff it comes with

What else does uBlock Origin come with? Like, content filtering, yes, but that’s pretty fundamentally coupled with ad blocking.

Given the implication that uBO is bloated, I’d also love to know what other adblockers you’ve been using that are more performant and/or less resource-intensive than uBO. The benchmarks I’ve seen show uBO performing better than ABP, but those metrics are all several years old at this point.

CanadianCorhen , to Technology in Mozilla’s ”Platform Tilt” Shows How Firefox Is Harmed by Apple, Microsoft

Mozilla, the company behind Firefox and Thunderbird, has talked a lot in recent years about the unfair advantages that platforms give to their first-party web browsers. Platform Tilt is a new effort from Mozilla to show how Firefox and other third-party browsers stack up against Chrome on Android, Safari on iPhone, and other platform pairings.

Mozilla said in a blog post, "There’s a long history of companies leveraging their control of devices and operating systems to tilt the playing field in favor of their own browser. This tilt manifests in a variety of ways. For example: making it harder for a user to download and use a different browser, ignoring or resetting a user’s default browser preference, restricting capabilities to the first-party browser, or requiring the use of the first-party browser engine for third-party browsers."

Mozilla is now outlining these "tilts" in a new "Platform Tilt" issue tracker database, while encouraging other web browsers to publish their concerns in a similar fashion. The main purpose is to call more attention to how platforms like iOS and Windows favor their own web browser over the competition, which is useful information in the various antitrust legal actions against Apple, Microsoft, and other big tech companies.

There are ten issues listed with Apple, including the Apple App Store forbiding third-party browser engines, no option to import browser data on iPhone and iPad from other web browsers, and difficult beta testing. On Android, Mozilla points out it can't import browser data, some features open Chrome instead of the default web browser, and Google search results on Android are worse.

Mozilla also highlighted three issues with Microsoft. The process for setting the default browser on Windows is still difficult, and some Windows features forcibly open links in Edge instead of the default web browser. Microsoft also reverts the default browser to Edge during some Windows setup interactions. Most of those issues were recently made illegal by the European Union, but Microsoft is free to continue doing them in other regions, like the United States.

The new database is a bit like Mozilla's WebCompat project, which documents the problems that popular websites have in Firefox and other less-popular web browsers. However, instead of specific sites creating a worse experience for Firefox users, Platform Tilt is about software platforms creating a worse experience.

You can check out the full Platform Tilt database at the source link below. It will likely continue to be updated as Mozilla sorts through its issue trackers.

Dariusmiles2123 ,

It’s good that these bad practices are being talked about.

I hope Firefox remains big enough to keep being an actor in the web landscape.

scottrepreneur ,

Hijacking top thread to say, if you haven't tried their new android browser, definitely check it out! Aiming to be largely compatible with desktop extensions, solid experience so far.

Sanctus ,
@Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

If anyone is curious it isn't too hard to setup Android Studio with adb to remove all these unwanted apps. Android can't forcibly open Chrome if its been removed.

graymess ,

Does it open Firefox instead, then?

tb_ ,
@tb_@lemmy.world avatar

If it's set as your default, I believe it does.

I've had Chrome disabled forever, Firefox as my default, and never had any issues with the wrong browser being opened.

GuyDudeman ,
@GuyDudeman@lemmy.world avatar

Link to the thing the article is talking about:

https://mozilla.github.io/platform-tilt/

LibreFish , to Technology in Mozilla’s ”Platform Tilt” Shows How Firefox Is Harmed by Apple, Microsoft

On Android, Mozilla points out it can't import browser data

You mean Android was built from the ground up to be a secure platform and not allow apps to meddle with other app's data?

This is a security and privacy feature that's very useful and applies to all apps.

FiskFisk33 , to Technology in 10 Reasons You Should Switch From Chrome to Firefox.

11: It's the only browser on the market that is not either apple webkit or google chrome based. And it's in our best interest to keep said market healthy, with as many competing actors as possible.

M500 ,

I just had to install chrome to book plane tickets. Kept getting an error on Firefox.

GregorTacTac ,
@GregorTacTac@lemm.ee avatar

Try changing your user agent. What's the error?

M500 ,

When I was choosing a return site it kept saying, “oops there was a mistake. It was not your fault. Try again later”.

Their mobile app sucked too, so I installed chrome to see if it would work and it did right away.

GregorTacTac ,
@GregorTacTac@lemm.ee avatar

If websites don't work on Firefox even if the user agent was changed to Chrome I recommend you to use a privacy preserving browser like ungoogled chromium.

Capitao_Duarte ,
@Capitao_Duarte@lemmy.eco.br avatar

How would I change the user agent? Never heard of this before, what is it?

TheRedSpade ,

It's a string that your browser sends to websites with information about the browser itself and your OS. Sometimes that info will be used to block functionality.

Years ago I tried to use TurboTax from Firefox on Ubuntu. It wouldn't work because only Internet Explorer on Windows was supported. I changed the user agent to make it appear as though I was using a supported setup, and it worked flawlessly.

I haven't actually needed to use one in a long time, but an extension search for "user agent switcher" should turn up something that can do it.

ililiililiililiilili ,

Easiest would be to install a plugin such as "User-Agent Switcher." This is the string of text that identifies what browser, version, and platform you're running to the server you're accessing.

GregorTacTac ,
@GregorTacTac@lemm.ee avatar

This is the way I do it when necessary.

M500 ,

Thanks! I just downloaded chrome to use for this one off instance. I’m pretty degoogled, but needed to book a flight so I just needed to get it done.

tsonfeir ,
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

Or find another service.

GregorTacTac ,
@GregorTacTac@lemm.ee avatar

Bit hard to do that with government websites and stuff like that.

tsonfeir ,
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

Time to emigrate! /s

FiskFisk33 ,

All the more reason to get more people to use it.

bdonvr ,

The one time I have to use Chrome is T-Mobile's site for some reason

flying_gel ,

Thai Airways by any chance? I kept getting weird errors in ff but was ok I'm chrome.

dustyData ,

There's a new feature inside Firefox that allows you to report webpages that are broken on Firefox but work in other browsers. Please use it. It's a great way to push for universal compatibility within browsers. It's usually the webpage developer's fault for using a non-orthodox technique that works exclusively on Chrome, but shouldn't be done for any sort of reasons, like compliance with web standards. But, it's possible for Firefox to derive intelligence from the reports and write workarounds.

rottingleaf ,

At some point there were more than 1 relevant browsers using Gecko, though. Somebody at Mozilla decided to gloriously triumph over allies by killing XULRunner and not offering a replacement.

Not sure if WebKit is such a bad choice in that context.

fruitycoder ,

The Tor browser is still Firefox based. Not a large niche, but being THE preferred way to browse with Tor makes it on its own imho

narc0tic_bird ,
@narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee avatar

Tor browser is just Firefox with a different default configuration and add-ons though.

fruitycoder ,

As it should be. But honestly unless there needs to be a change there is no reason to fork.

Most of the chromium forks are just branding and proprietary features they want built in, with brave being the only one that feels a little more aggressive in changes from the base.

goldsoul ,

Tbf someone else mentioned arc browser which is chromium and seems to be pretty...different from base

fruitycoder ,

Thanks for the info! Agreed that one seems to be trying to actually value add on top of its base.

Delusion6903 ,

Much like librewolf, my favorite desktop browser

cmhe , (edited )

Well, there are also the mobile variants of Firefox, which are more of their own thing.

IMO Mozilla limited itself a bit too much on Firefox. Which results it their web engine not attracting many developers for it outside Mozilla.

Embedding gecko in your own app was much easier in the past. This is now mostly taken over by CEF and WPE for Blink and WebKit respectively.

Also stuff like B2G (Boot 2 Gecko) or FirefoxOS are dead as well.

A goal of open source should be to be hacker friendly as well, were currently Blink/WebKit is leading. There are so many more projects around those engines than Gecko, which is sad.

rottingleaf ,

Yes, I'm talking about that. I was using conkeror (Gecko-based browser with emacs-like controls, which is funny since for editing I've never learned emacs and use vi/vim) until it stopped being practical.

Blackmist ,

It really is telling that even Microsoft don't find it viable to maintain a browser engine.

The "standards" are an absolute fucking nonsense, and boil down to "just do what Chrome does because nobody can stop them".

douglasg14b ,
@douglasg14b@lemmy.world avatar

I feel like I'm going crazy since we kept preaching for years that this is the end goal and that this is what will happen with Google's anti-competitive practices. Just get shit on in the comment threads until recently.

It's not even a feel good I told you so because this just sucks.

MimicJar ,

To be fair to Chrome.

Microsoft had the vast majority with Trident. Mozilla/Firefox slowly gained market share with Gecko. Chrome/Webkit* then took market share from both.

It's not like Chrome just appeared one day and demanded everyone use them, they gained market share by being a good browser.

*(Chrome now uses a fork of Webkit called Blink.)

That being said I do think Firefox provides the best browser experience, and Chrome users should look into switching.

Which is a long way of saying Microsoft fucked up bad. Real bad.

TheGreenGolem ,

Yeah, like Nokia-bad. Wait...

ilinamorato ,

Microsoft is the king of blowing a massive, industry-defining market lead in the fourth quarter due to unforced errors. Especially in the 21st century:

  • They were the default office suite, to the point where their trademark became the category name, and they even had SharePoint; but their stubborn refusal to get into the cloud document game handed off the top spot to Google Docs.

  • They were the king of K12 education by default, since Apple was so expensive and essentially the only factor that matters in K12 is price. Then they completely ignored Google offering really good deals on Chromebooks for a decade or more, and now Chrome OS is the dominant K12 platform.

  • They owned Skype, which was genericized as the popular verb meaning "to make a video call." But they ignored the opportunity that was the pandemic, and Zoom not only ate their lunch but took the genericized trademark crown.

  • They had Lync, which was the de facto messaging app that every Enterprise deployment used. But then they didn't update the app for a decade except to change the name to Skype for Business and then to Teams, while Slack ate their lunch.

  • And, as you mentioned, they had the top browser for both users and developers, but did nothing with it until Chrome got unattainably faster, easier to use, and more standards-compliant.

  • Xbox was never the singular market leader like these other things—they've always played ping-pong with PlayStation—but Microsoft owns Rare, an industry defining studio, and they've completely wasted them for years.

  • They never had dominance in the smartphone world, but they were poised for it with a well-liked and visually distinct platform in Windows Phone which they just abandoned.

  • To a certain extent, they had a sort of "goodwill dominance" in their operating system, which they frittered away on automatic updates and design overhauls and (more recently) AI that nobody was asking for.

They lost all these massive leads while they were chasing dominance in search, or video game livestreaming, or AI, or whatever. They always seem to be focusing on the thing that doesn't matter while their dominance just flutters away in the wind.

limelight79 ,

It's in their DNA. They completely missed the internet boat when it first took off in the early 2000s and played catch-up for years thereafter. You would think they would have learned and not made the same mistakes again that you have in your list, but nope. Maybe they were too busy fighting Linux.

laughterlaughter ,

Sigh. Every fucking thread.

This is not true. Firefox is not the only browser that's not based on Webkit.

There's Iceweasel, Waterfox, Pale Moon, Seamonkey and Librewolf. That they have a negligible portion of the market is one thing. But they're on the market, dammit!

theneverfox ,

I've heard this over and over...

But people still aren't getting it (despite increasingly obvious signs this is already causing problems that will soon get much worse), so I guess we need to keep saying it

FiskFisk33 ,

on the bright side, with the more obvious signs, more people might listen

theneverfox ,

I definitely get less sneers these days when I talk about things like this

Hell, you know what - I'm going to double down on your bright side - if the enshitification wasn't so public and rapid, it might've been too late before normal people started noticing

Syl , to Technology in 10 Reasons You Should Switch From Chrome to Firefox.
@Syl@jlai.lu avatar

And the fact that google is imposing manifest v3, which will tone down ublock origin.

Deebster ,
@Deebster@programming.dev avatar

The article mentions that "Chrome [has a] more restrictive Manifest 3 plugin API", but doesn't go into any examples, when this one is the main one (and why Google brought in manifest v3 at all).

Syl ,
@Syl@jlai.lu avatar
Ephera ,

It should also be mentioned that even compared to Manifest v2, Firefox's extension API is already more powerful and makes uBlock Origin more effective: https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/uBlock-Origin-works-best-on-Firefox

ensignrolaren , (edited ) to Technology in 10 Reasons You Should Switch From Chrome to Firefox.

There’s like… no downside: all upside.

Edit: I exaggerated, of course. Below this are some downsides that individuals have experienced. But personally, my experience using Firefox on desktop for Mac has been all upside. If everybody who can just tries it out, you might be surprised at how friction-free the change is.

SapphironZA ,

Not strictly true. Firefox gets inferior support from cloud services, like Microsoft. Newer versions of their Web apps are not available on Firefox.

But there should be no downside. It's all artificial.

AnUnusualRelic ,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

The big services purposely degrade their sites when users connect with Firefox. It's well documented.

Unfortunately nothing is being done about it so far.

sonovebitch ,

One thing I miss in Firefox is tab grouping. Yes there are 3rd party extensions that do that. But Chromium based browsers support that natively.

candyman337 ,
@candyman337@lemmy.world avatar

Sideberry is leaps and bounds better at it imo tho

AVengefulAxolotl ,

Yeah, this extension is crazy good. It works as if it was native.

candyman337 ,
@candyman337@lemmy.world avatar

Agreed, and it seems like Firefox has recently made an effort to accommodate the extension more, as it seems to run even better than it used to and is now a recommended extension

Caligvla ,
@Caligvla@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

You haven't tried Vivaldi then. It has the best tab management features of any browser by leaps and bounds, it saddens me they chose Chromium over Gecko given that manifest v3 is coming.

barter ,

I don’t like that Vivaldi can’t have multiple levels of grouping like you can in sideberry or tree style tabs

Caligvla ,
@Caligvla@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I guess that's the one feature Sideberry has over Vivaldi, but I've never missed it if I'm being honest. To each their own.

dustyData ,

It gives me anxiety, it's way too overcrowded and cluttered. I use Tree Style Tab. It does one thing, it does it well, it doesn't overcomplicate it, it works with me.

candyman337 ,
@candyman337@lemmy.world avatar

I will say it took me some time to get used to it, but it also is a lot easier to use than it used to, they made a lot of things better in the last update

I think it's one of those things that you have to sit down and test out and really figure out. Tree style tabs are also good though. I definitely think it's where sideberry got their inspiration

theneverfox ,

Oh hell yeah... Thank you friend. I immediately downloaded it, and it took me all of 30 seconds to realize this is it

This is what I've been looking for, for years now. I even took a crack at it myself several years ago, but then I realized it wasn't possible without doing an extension (rather than a plug-in) if I wanted to do it right

You have mitigated one of most inconvenient recurring problems in my life. I'm working on a lemmy app right now, and I'm so grateful I'm going to move up the "mark user as friend" feature.

How would you like me to guild your username so I might recognize you in the future? Lit up border? Tiny crown on your avatar? A little lemmy gold symbol next to the score? I'm open to suggestion

aluminium ,

No, in my experience especially the Android version of Firefox is less smooth when playing animations or scrolling on older or lower end devices.

I really hope with the new Focus on Firefox mobile, that they will iron that out.

viking ,
@viking@infosec.pub avatar

Use Fennec instead, no issues on Android

Blackmist ,

I have to use Chrome for...

  1. Logging into PSN, since something in Firefox hard locks when I try it. I think it's to do with Firefox's password manager.

  2. VR porn.

  3. Some videos. Firefox doesn't support certain video types (namely HEVC/H.265) due to patent issues.

Haha ,

Why wont VR porn work anywhere else?

Blackmist ,

Firefox doesn't appear to support it. Chrome does.

At least on this site.

I think it's to do with WebXR support, but I'm not digging through 10 layers of bullshit JS to find out for certain.

Haha ,

Fair enough :)

SuspiciousUser ,

Hm, I tried the site and the lady was getting rammed for me in Firefox 123 in Windows.

mox , (edited ) to Technology in 10 Reasons You Should Switch From Chrome to Firefox.

For Android users, there's also the Firefox-based Mull.

viking ,
@viking@infosec.pub avatar

I prefer Fennec, Mull is too restrictive. I get the appeal, but I want some of the comforts.

mox ,

Such as?

viking ,
@viking@infosec.pub avatar

My biggest pet peeve is the system color scheme detection. Mull always runs websites in white.

mox , (edited )

Ah. That's part of Resist Fingerprinting mode, which (after checking about:config) I see Mull enables by default. Desktop Firefox does the same thing in that mode. You could always turn it off if you don't value that protection.

1984 , to Technology in 10 Reasons You Should Switch From Chrome to Firefox.
@1984@lemmy.today avatar

Just need one reason: Google.

aStonedSanta , to Technology in 10 Reasons You Should Switch From Chrome to Firefox.

Imn loving floorp so far.

NateNate60 , to Technology in 10 Reasons You Should Switch From Chrome to Firefox.

Posting this on Lemmy is preaching to the choir.

PrettyFlyForAFatGuy ,

have any instance admins ever shared the browser stats?

kawa ,
@kawa@reddeet.com avatar

Well, me :) right here : https://analytics.kawa.zip/reddeet.com

PrettyFlyForAFatGuy ,

14% ain't bad i suppose. and some FF users may be masking, and your sample size of 12 may not be very representative

rambaroo ,

If it is 12%, that's still much higher than the internet as a whole which is only 2-3%

PrettyFlyForAFatGuy ,

need a bigger sample size really. 14% of reddeet.coms 12 active users is 1 person

kawa ,
@kawa@reddeet.com avatar

Yeah it's a very small instance, I'm the only one really using it right now ^^'

Aermis ,

Hi. I'm on lemmy. I haven't switched. Why? Because there an insane amount of incorporation into Google. Email, my phone communicating to pc, passwords, auto fill, saved cookies, credit cards.

I want to switch. I want to get off chrome from what I've been reading regarding it's practices. But I'm so engraved and the undertaking of switching is not something I've committed to yet. Or might never. I already have a Google Home in my kitchen. I feel like privacy isn't something I have a privilege of anymore.

They've got me.

Eezyville ,
@Eezyville@sh.itjust.works avatar

You store your passwords on Chome?

Aermis ,

Yes 😢

Eezyville ,
@Eezyville@sh.itjust.works avatar

Oh man! Download KeePassXC, put your passwords on there, install the browser extension to use it in your browsers. You can back it up any way you want, including using Google Drive because the file is encrypted.

maxwisecracks ,
@maxwisecracks@lemmy.world avatar

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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  • Eezyville ,
    @Eezyville@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Some people don't want to sign up to a cloud provider or manage their own instance. KeePassXC offers a simple file that can be stored on your devices. It's easy to sync using your existing cloud accounts and encrypted.

    PersonalDevKit ,

    The overlap of the community that don't want to sign up to cloud providers and those that save their passwords to chrome is a very small overlap.

    Poco a poco, little by little. Jumping into the deepend is not for everyone

    bryan , to Technology in 10 Reasons You Should Switch From Chrome to Firefox.
    @bryan@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    Meh. Been using Safari since 2012 and it’s fine.

    rikudou ,

    Ah, the new Internet Explorer.

    abhibeckert ,

    That's silly. Safari is neither the worst browser nor the most popular one. IE was both of those things.

    NoisyFlake ,

    They probably meant from a developer perspective. It's the only browser that's missing a lot of CSS/JS features and needs weird workarounds for the simplest things.

    redcalcium ,

    Apple has been suspected to intentionally slow down safari development in some key areas so it won't cannibalize the AppStore. Frustrated web devs, unable to get their web apps to work correctly on safari mobile, would publish their apps in the AppStore instead of using PWA.

    dustyData ,

    That has been mostly solved by Apple in the most Apple way possible. They just forbade PWA on iOS. Period. Like, they still load on Safari, but you can't pin it as a pwa to your app drawer anymore.

    smileyhead ,

    Slowing down web development good, but not like that.

    Wootz ,

    Did you read the article at all?

    bryan ,
    @bryan@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    Yes. Firefox is my backup for the 1-2 websites I encounter per year that don’t work with Safari.

    sleepmode , to Technology in 10 Reasons You Should Switch From Chrome to Firefox.

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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  • AnUnusualRelic ,
    @AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

    I never got this whole "speed" argument.

    I never had a lot of difference between both browsers (never got to use chrome much, admittedly), but even when it was supposedly "bad", Firefox never struck me as being especially slow.

    Was it a windows thing or what?

    sunbeam60 ,

    I think it was from a time when you could notice the difference. Now it’s just a race towards marginal gains.

    theneverfox ,

    I definitely noticed, before quantum (like 5 years ago) single page apps and frameworks like react were becoming a thing, and it was noticeably less snappy than chrome

    After they announced the rewrite to better handle shadow doms and partial repaints, I switched for everything but development

    Since then, they've done another rewrite, and the dev tools are closer, so I only open chrome when a site I have to use isn't working, or by client request

    psycho_driver , to Technology in 10 Reasons You Should Switch From Chrome to Firefox.

    Anybody else having flaky behavior with youtube videos in Firefox lately? Like, only audio resuming but video freezing after rewinding? I'm wondering if this is intentional on the part of Google.

    douglasg14b ,
    @douglasg14b@lemmy.world avatar

    Given Google and YouTube's history of intentionally and maliciously disrupting other browsers that aren't chrome, it'll be a safe bet that it's intentional.

    Saprophyte ,
    @Saprophyte@lemmy.world avatar
    udon ,

    So, the solution is to disable the adblocker? Not gonna happen

    Saprophyte ,
    @Saprophyte@lemmy.world avatar

    I use pihole. It's external to a browser extension and performs the same without the in browser complaints about using an ad blocker.

    wurosh ,

    Yes, but I've had it across multiple sites that play video, so I don't think it's youtube.

    Brokkr ,

    I think youtube makes itself terrible if you don't have premium. I have the problems you describe and others on both my desktop with FF or my chromebook with chrome.

    tgxn ,

    Nope, it's still just as terrible with premium.

    stoly ,

    I’ve heard this but it hasn’t happened to me.

    Harpsist ,

    On my pc with a couple ad blockers youtube is SLOW.

    If i turn them off it runs fine.

    On my android using adaway I have zero youtube lag.

    So yeah. Seems pretty intentional

    Delusion6903 ,

    On mobile I only use New Pipe for videos. Admittedly, I don't do much YouTube but I haven't noticed any problems on my laptop.

    SoupBrick , to Technology in 10 Reasons You Should Switch From Chrome to Firefox.

    Screen capture being disabled in private mode on firefox is really reassuring to me.

    michel , to Technology in 10 Reasons You Should Switch From Chrome to Firefox.
    @michel@friend.ketterle.ch avatar

    @L4s
    Fully agree, but @howtogeek.com please enhance your privacy with reducing your dependency to third party scripts.

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