Welcome to Incremental Social! Learn more about this project here!
Check out lemmyverse to find more communities to join from here!

I am genuinely horrified to see how much data google collected from me

I created a google takeout and in that zip file I found some files containing a ton of data about me. It has logged every single page I visited while using the google search engine and chrome browser. It even logged every single time I opened an app on my old android phone. It even has VOICE RECORDINGS of me and a log of every time I used google assistant. This is just some of the data and I'm very sure there is even more data they have.

trippingonthewire ,

I just deleted my google account. Bye YouTube comments.

sidgames5 OP ,
@sidgames5@lemmy.zip avatar

I wish I could just delete it. I'm still figuring out things with nextcloud and I run a youtube channel so I can't do that yet.

Pepsi ,
@Pepsi@kbin.social avatar

If the only reason you’re keeping it is to make and post YouTube videos, it doesn’t sound like you wish you could delete it.

fromthenorth ,
@fromthenorth@techhub.social avatar

@sidgames5 @trippingonthewire Is there a more privacy-friendly option (non-data siphoning) for video hosting?

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Peer Tube

trippingonthewire ,

You could create an Odysee channel perhaps, and try to migrate there. Then you're supporting competition.

Omega_Haxors ,

You're really not missing out. I swear 90% of the youtube comments I end up getting are from hardcore nazis.

Fisch ,
@Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

Wish I could do that too but my email is still tied to some accounts where I can't change it

trippingonthewire ,

You can't change the email you use? Are you open to deleting those accounts, and maybe making new ones? Or saying goodbye to those platform's for good? Customer service could help you change emails, perhaps.

delirious_owl , (edited )
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

How do you do this?

I have a few dozen google accounts, but most of them I'm locked out of. Even if I enter the correct username and password on the first try, google says I can't login because I never associated a phone number to the account.

How can I get this data?

qaz ,

Probably a GDPR data request

Flumpkin ,

Hmm, wouldn't that make it worse? Because then you have to give your real name, no?

ChairmanMeow ,
@ChairmanMeow@programming.dev avatar

As if Google doesn't already know.

qaz , (edited )

No, most sites have a button stashed in some submenu of the account page that allows you to request your data. It’s either a legal requirement of the GDPR or they just don’t want to deals with individual email requests, I’m not exactly sure.

It usually does take a lot of time for the request to be “processed”, you usually get an email with a zip archive after about a week. I’m not sure if that’s malicious compliance.

You can also send a GDPR request to have them delete all your data, but they do have 1 month to comply and in my experience most services do take that long to “process” your request.

Keep in mind that many services hide these options for non-EU citizens.

Tywele ,

takeout.google.com

blindsight ,

That only works if you can log in. Otherwise, it would be a massive privacy problem since anyone could takeout anyone's data.

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

That tells me to login

Fisch ,
@Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

Have the same issue on one of my accounts. I can login but when I try to do anything, I need to verify by getting a code over SMS. The thing is, the phone number on that account is an old one I don't have access to anymore. There is no other verification option, I can't delete it from my account without verification and I'm definitely not adding my actual number.

Sir_Kevin ,

This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. It's the same with all the big data companies. Everything you type, say or do gets logged and never deleted.

SharkAttak ,
@SharkAttak@kbin.social avatar

That's why I'm still in doubt wether to use my fingerprint to unlock my phone. Would be convenient, but where is it stored, who can access it?

brlemworld ,

Stored locally

rhebucks-zh ,

are you sure about that?

Fisch ,
@Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

I don't see how your fingerprint could be used for advertising

Churbleyimyam ,

Anybody with access to your finger, which means they don't need you to be conscious or even alive to access your phone.

Tak ,
@Tak@lemmy.ml avatar

If they have me dead or unconscious my phone is the least of my concerns.

Churbleyimyam ,

Needing a password/pattern instead makes them want to keep you alive tho.
Good opsec.

Tak ,
@Tak@lemmy.ml avatar

Totally. I'm not saying it's better security just that in a situation like that I'm not really worried about what's going on with my phone.

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Thats kinda fucked up. So you dont mind if all the conversations with your friends get published publicly?

You're not a good friend.

Tak ,
@Tak@lemmy.ml avatar

My friends don't want to use end to end encrypted platforms so it's one data leak from being public anyway.

Churbleyimyam ,

The suspect was later arrested in possession of a severed finger and a dank porn stash on the victims mobile phone

SharkAttak ,
@SharkAttak@kbin.social avatar

Depends if you wanna be remembered as John Smith instead of "Ah Yeah, John Smith the furry midget lover"

Tak ,
@Tak@lemmy.ml avatar

Maybe that's my kink

ChallengeApathy ,

Smart for many reasons as people listed here. Your fourth amendment rights to your phone also go out the window when you use biometrics like fingerprint. PIN/password is protected, fingerprint/face scan is not. Backwards world we're in, huh?

panicnow ,

It could be they are collecting and hiding the data, but what they publicly disclose they have certainly varies. My de-google-fication really started when I used google takeout (like the OP here). Excluding things I wanted backed up (e.g. photos), Google still had more than a GB of textual data (this was 7 years ago or so—my memory may be wrong). I use Apple a lot so I went to their “takeout” page. They had a few MB of data pretty much all of which I considered innocuous. I don’t think they are equivalent.

I do agree Facebook probably collects as much data as Google, but I gave that up long ago.

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Its not everything. Thats hyperbolic. Metadata is usually more profitable then the data itself.

Sir_Kevin ,

Not literally everything. But if you're sending unencrypted data via internet, even data you may not be aware of. It's likely being stored by some company.

rageagainstmachines ,

What's even scarier is that takeout is probably only the data they want you to see, or are legally obliged to share.

I would be willing to wager they have lots more on you that you're not even aware of.

LemmyKnowsBest ,

including everything they see through our front camera and rear cameras 😱

Fisch ,
@Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

Idk about that. What data could they get with that, that they can't already get through other (cheaper) means, that would justify all the network traffic and storage space?

zwekihoyy ,

while, yes, regardless of your privacy settings google still collects a sickening amount of data on you, much of these things (like voice recordings and location history) can be managed and disabled in the settings. if you wish to go further, grapheneos removes A LOT of tracking potential.

these should be opt in features, but one can opt out of much of them.

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

How is it not zero on Graphene??

zwekihoyy ,

well if you have play services installed then google is gonna get some data on you.

Chakravanti ,

So does CalyxOS

ooli ,

The worst part, is even when you try to avoid, you cant.

You send an email from proton, to mostly gmail account, now they have your email.

You mean your business, the guy next to you talk to google home, and you get recorded.

Every time I 'm forced to use a google account by some 3rd party, I get a panic attack from how predatory it is to get you to give them your data, you cant log out without 4 clic, it is a true dystopia we let that compagny rule our world

teamevil ,

But but but you should pay for YouTube!

risencode ,

now they have your email.

That's why you use hide-my-email aliases when you sign up to sites, so they can't tie "your" email to you anymore.

Every time I 'm forced to use a google account

Create a few junk accounts, send recovery to a hide-my-email alias

If you use password managers it really is no bother to have multiple accounts, and Proton Pass integrates hide-my-email, it's pretty neat.

glasgitarrewelt ,

Thanks for the hint with hide-my-email! I will ask my mail provider, if they offer something like this as a service.

Scolding0513 ,

dont panic. you can protect yourself. dont depend on others. you can use random email aliases for everything. always take the mindset that anything you say outside your home is public information. use throwaway phone numbers like jmp.chat if you have to use phone numbers at all. etc etc.

take the approach of compartmentalizing your identities and contact info, and take the approach of protecting your SELF first, dont depend on others. sorta like a shady arms dealer or something, but you're not dealing arms :P!

Scolding0513 ,

this is such a good post. everyone who wants to learn about privacy should do a google takeout FIRST. to get hit with a huge epiphany

risencode ,

Today you learned a valuable lesson:

When an online service is free it generally means you're the product.

conti473 ,

Today companies will snoop your info even if you pay 1000s for a device.

Why wouldn't they, obviously no one cares

frostysauce ,

It's [current year], nobody is learning that lesson today. We've all known it for well over a decade now.

unwarlikeExtortion ,

It's not even online only anymore. You can't do the setup process of Android OR Windows without connecting to the Internet, and I doubt Apple's products are any better in that regard.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Fortunately you can degoogle many Android phones. And stop using big tech products in general. They have a lot of issues, not only a complete lack of privacy

H1jAcK ,

I might be looking into a new phone soon, what do you suggest?

iSeth ,

A pixel, if you buy into GrapheneOS being the pinnacle of security. Otherwise, anything with an unlockable bootloader and LineagOS support.

pineapplelover ,

Graphene gang representing

EpicVision ,

Gang gang

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Dont forget CalyxOS. IMHO better than Graphene

Chakravanti ,

Much

EpicVision ,

CalyxOS has pretty bad security. They install F-Droid and microG with root privileges, don't release updates regularly and lack many security features of GrapheneOS.

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Different strokes, but I personally dont think yge Graphene devs are trustworthy, and much prefer Calyx.

I'm also not afraid of root. Its how I harden my device (eg firewall)

EpicVision ,

GrapheneOS has a built in Firewall that doesn't require root privileges. Also, you don't trust the GrapheneOS devs who arguably create one of the most secure operating systems on the planet, which is open source and can be verified by everyone, but you trust Calyx devs who regularly go months without releasing any Android security patches and include highly privileged third party apps in their operating system. Makes a lot of sense.

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Of course it requires root.

EpicVision ,

Oh sorry, my bad. I meant it's not some third party app that has to be installed with root privileges, but rather just a well integrated part of the system, which uses Android's permission system to deny internet access.

Pringles ,

It's actually quite ironic that the best phone to degoogle your life is sold by google.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

If you want a normie phone that you can install a privacy-focused OS on, Google Pixel is a surprisingly good option. Just take a look at the LineageOS's and GrapheneOS's officially supported devices lists before purchasing a specific model. You can also choose Xiaomi or Motorola but you won't be able to lock the bootloader with a custom OS installed on that phones which can create some vulnerabilities. If you want to run Linux on your phone though, you either need a PinePhone or a OnePlus 6 series

Churbleyimyam ,

Look at which devices are supported my grapheneos, calyxos, /e/os and ubuntu touch/droidian and get the newest one of those that you can afford. Usually a google pixel (ironically) but also fairphone are well supported and are better IMO.

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Ubunto Touch is still a thing? Does it get updated forever like normal Linux distros do?

Churbleyimyam ,

Yeah buddy. It's still getting updates; for how long though depends on the developers of course. Use it and bung them a donation! You can even install full Linux apps on it via Libertine, although it's slightly easier on Droidian IIRC. Very, very cool stuff.

superduperenigma ,

Ironically enough, Google Pixels are great phones if you need to de-google with GrapheneOS.

cowboy_oh_gee ,

I just can't buy it and support them

Jolteon ,

Buy used on Swappa/ebay

BarrelAgedBoredom ,

Shameless plug for backmarket. They're pretty solid

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Twice the price of ebay

BarrelAgedBoredom ,

Depending on the state of the thing you're looking at, maybe? A pixel 6 pro goes for ~220 on backmarket and ~210 on eBay. Does eBay guarantee free 30 day returns and have a great 1 year warranty? Depends on the seller. Backmarket offers it sitewide. Id rather pay a few extra bucks to not have to fight with someone over getting my money back or my shit fixed

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

I usually never spend more than $100 on a used phone. The $100 phones on eBay can't be found for the same price on backmarket

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

  1. Pretty certain these things have razor thin margins, if any.

  2. You're supporting them MUCH more by giving them your data. According to Proton the average Google user is worth ~$400/year.

Pixel phones are mostly designed to be flagship Android experiences, not generate hardware revenue.

Chakravanti ,

Or CalyxOS

EpicVision ,

GrapheneOS is amazing

Loucypher ,

Can you use banking apps on it?

EpicVision ,

Yes. Check out this list: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos

Duke_Nukem_1990 ,

Will this still be true after safetynet is deprecated? Not trying to be difficult, just don't want to get my hopes up.

Edit: ah its adressed in the link lol

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Why would you want to use a banking app on something as insecure as a phone??!?

Hamartiogonic ,
@Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz avatar

When your bank tells you that the code booklet will be phased out and mobile app will be the only way in the future.

Loucypher ,

Bingo

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Change banks that take security seriously

suppenloeffel ,
@suppenloeffel@feddit.de avatar

As long as you don't use some shady, unofficial ROM on a phone, most phones are actually vastly more secure than your typical Linux/Windows OS.

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

How long is your passphrase on your phone compared to your Linux/windows OS?

A phone is designed for quick usability, which is the enemy of security.

Sure, if you have a 20 char password on your phone and never install any sketchy apps, then it might be ok. But the whole phone ecosystem is just less secure because its designed for convince, not security.

EpicVision ,

A phone is more secure than most desktop computers. https://youtu.be/Wd4Pa03LvLk

GrapheneOS even significantly improves Android's already pretty good security model.

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Riiight, someone's phone with a 4 digit pin that they tap out 100x per day in public in plain view of others (that I can easily pick out of your pocket) is more secure than a laptop with a 20 character passphrase that never leaves my house.

Do you even think about what you're saying?

EpicVision ,

I'm talking about the security model of the platform, not the way you use your devices. If you do your online banking in a browser on your computer and your system gets infected with malware, that malware can access all the files on your computer. Including application data of your browser. It can access your cookies, which your bank's website uses to store your login information. Such an attack is impossible on a mobile device, since apps can only access their own data, and inter-process communication is heavily restricted. Additionally, mobile operating systems like Android have complex permission systems, as well as kernel-based mandatory access control like SELinux/SE for Android. Your typical desktop OS has none of that. Android also has a strong implementation of Verified Boot, which makes sure that malware can't persist on your system partition, even after your device gets infected. I recommend this video if you want to learn more about mobile device security: https://youtu.be/yTeAFoQnQPo

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

QubesOS and TAILS solve this issue. If people dont use those, then I recommend a distinct computer for finances only. Thats more secure than using an Android app for banking.

EpicVision ,

No, Tails doesn't solve this issue at all. It's built for maximum anonymity, not security. It also uses Tor for all connections, which will get your bank account locked immediately. Qubes is a good option for security, but it's way too complicated for most users. Stop making up some random shit and accept that mobile devices running modern operating systems are reasonably secure and definitely more secure than your ordinary desktop.

delirious_owl , (edited )
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

You can't get persistent malware if all browser history and installed apps disappear every time you reboot. Yes, TAILS was designed for security. Yes, TAILS was also designed for privacy. Obviously its no longer anonymous if you log into your bank.

Tor Browser is by far the most hardened & secure web browser. If a bank is blocking Tor, that bank probably doesn't understand security and its a red flag. Choose another bank. Or, better, use monero. Its way more secure than banks.

Disclaimer: I used to work in info security for a bank in Europe.

EpicVision ,

Basically every bank blocks Tor and many even block VPNs. Also, Tor Browser is not particularly secure. It's been designed for fingerprinting resistance and network anonymity through the Tor network. The Tor Browser is based on Firefox, which lacks many important security features like site isolation, Control Flow Integrity or any meaningful sandboxing. I absolutely hate Google and their monopolistic business practices, but Chromium is by far the most secure browser. Especially when it's running on a secure mobile operating system. GrapheneOS goes even further than Android and deploys a hardened memory allocator (which was actually ported from OpenBSD), which significantly reduces the risk for memory coruption. On the newest generation of mobile SOCs (ARMv9), GrapheneOS enables memory tagging by default. Again, find me a desktop platform with MTE. This once again proves my point that mobile devices are simply more secure. Every single piece of hardware and software in your phone has been built with a strong focus of security.

Or, better, use monero.

I absolutely agree on this one. Look at the Lemmy instance I'm on. I'm a big fan of Monero, but unfortunately there aren't many places that accept XMR.

pearable ,

I bought a fairphone 4 awhile ago from Murena, the only US distributor. Other phones have more bells and whistles but I feel better knowing I can repair it if something goes wrong. If you're in Europe the FP5 is a good bet but I don't think anyone is selling them in North America. I don't know about distribution elsewhere.

Undertaker ,

Look for DivestOS supported devices. What I cannot recommend is Fairphone. Several Hardware issues, support refuses to accept them. The support in general is horrible.

Kind regards
A Fairphone 4 user with /e/OS

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Get a Pixel and install a custom ROM. Any ROM is fine, just dont install gapps. You actually have to go out of your way to install google crap. By default a new install is google-free

arbocenc ,
@arbocenc@kfem.cat avatar

@H1jAcK @GolfNovemberUniform What about a mobile like ?

H1jAcK ,

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

    •
    OminousOrange ,
    @OminousOrange@lemmy.ca avatar

    Toss Linux Mint on a bootable USB, fire up a live version and play around a bit. I was in the same boat and am working on fully transitioning over. The only minor hurdles are Office 365 and other Windows-only programs, but there are ways to get those to work, or just run a Windows VM.

    helenslunch ,
    @helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

    13 years was a long time ago

    om1k ,

    don't forget if you have location enabled in your phone it tracks every single place you've been to

    WarmSoda ,

    And it can be very wrong about those locations, too. For better or worse, idk. My old phone showed me going to completely different cities on the other side of my state when I went to the corner store.

    possiblylinux127 ,
    @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

    It does that even if you turn it off. The setting just controls location access by third party apps.

    Lineage os and F-droid is the better solution. It has the advantage of being bloat free as well

    Churbleyimyam ,

    You can also use GPS location without any google services running, it just takes a bit longer to find your position when you first connect. OsmAnd or Organic maps from f-droid, which are actually superior apps to google maps in a lot of ways, particularly OsmAnd.

    Scary_le_Poo ,
    @Scary_le_Poo@beehaw.org avatar

    These apps cannot find addresses in the US. Just a heads up so anyone that sees this doesn't pull their hair out trying to figure it out. No, it isn't you, it's the app.

    delirious_owl ,
    @delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

    Works fine when you use GPS coordinates

    KISSmyOS , (edited )

    It's not the app, it's the lack of volunteers mapping addresses in the US.
    Don't pull your hair out, install StreetComplete and take a walk around your neighborhood.

    And if you find that fun, editing Openstreetmap in the browser isn't all that hard, either.
    If you add addresses you are missing, you can increase the apps utility for yourself directly. Pretty fun seeing the stuff you entered appear in the map. And it doesn't require any coding skills.

    Something you can't do with missing info in Google Maps.

    Churbleyimyam ,

    This is very cool. Bookmarked.

    N4CHEM ,

    THIS! OsmAnd and Organic Maps are not worse apps because you cannot find some addresses. The data comes from OpenStreetMap, and if it's missing there it won't be available in these apps. That's not a bug, that's a feature. How? OpenStreetMap data is open and free for everyone to use and edit, it's like the Wikipedia of maps. No, you don't have Google mapping everything for you, you should probably chip in and help add addresses if you want a map that doesn't depend on a huge corporation, a map where you can correct mistakes, and a map that's free for anyone to use in their apps or websites. Otherwise we depend on what Google wants to map, how they want to map it, and the app that they offer us to access that data.

    possiblylinux127 ,
    @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

    I had to use Satstat to reset the AGPS data as Lineage os just won't refresh agps on its own.

    delirious_owl ,
    @delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

    Yeah Google Maps isn't actually a map app. Its for navigation.

    1984 ,
    @1984@lemmy.today avatar

    They may even save every Google meet meeting for all we know. They may train their AI on how our faces look in meetings.

    Nothing is too creepy for Google.

    Benaaasaaas ,

    Why would they need that? There is plenty of your face on Google photos.

    fishbone ,

    For you, maybe. Mine is filled with black screen pocket photos, furry porn, and 714 copies of a video of a horrifying mecha furby that's stepping on its own removed face.

    Another copy shows up every time I have a nightmare about it, which is pretty odd, now that I think about it.

    FMT99 ,

    Why would they need that? Let me introduce you to Big Data.

    PopMyCop ,

    The faces training was all of the filters. Every single time someone took a video or picture and used filters to add cute moe eyes, or make themselves look like a crab, it was being used to make whichever company was doing it have a better bottom line or to accelerate their facial recognition.

    hirad ,

    One thing people seem to forget is that even though Google is a real enemy of privacy, it’s far from the worst company.
    Companies like Google collect and use your data. While there are many companies that collect data only to sell them to any customer they might have.

    BRBWaffles ,
    @BRBWaffles@lemmy.world avatar

    I rarely interact in any meaningful way with anything in Google's ecosystem these days. I'm still tied by a couple little whispy threads, but nothing serious. I'm running GrapheneOS with no Google apps, switched my email to Proton, switched to Firefox, search with Brave, use a NAS for cloud storage, and browse YouTube anonymously with NewPipe. Occasionally I'll get an email on one of my old Gmail addresses, but other than that I feel like I've sufficiently deGoogled enough to feel safe.

    frostysauce ,

    What do you do for maps/navigation?

    BRBWaffles ,
    @BRBWaffles@lemmy.world avatar

    OsmAnd and Organic Maps. They're both not as good as Google Maps. But at least when I use them Google doesn't get to know that I traveled 15km across town to fuck a Tinder thot and buy bread.

    kenopsik ,

    Username checks out

    Jayhosh ,

    This! I genuinely love my phone now that's never happened before.

    wall_inhabiter ,

    Just imagine what Microsoft and Apple are getting thru telemetry

    folkrav ,

    Of all three, Google has the most skin in that game, for what it’s worth, IMHO. They’re an advertising company first and foremost, and it shows in all of their products’ feature sets and privacy policies.

    But we also can’t trust either of them lol

    Kbin_space_program ,

    You do realize that Google is far worse than Apple and Microsoft combined right?

    wall_inhabiter ,

    Doesn't have anything to do with Microsoft and Apple's market share on PC which is what I was thinking of.

    Besides, it wasn't like I was saying Google's mobile telemetry is less invasive on Android, where they compete with Apple for being as creepy as possible. IIRC windows phones haven't taken off

    GBU_28 ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

    •
    Kbin_space_program ,

    As a percentage of population, so did Julius Caesar.

    The reality is that Google is entirely dependent on ads and selling your data.

    Apple and Microsoft, it's just a happy side gig they can do.

    Apple makes its money selling mediocre hardware and software for a premium markup.
    Microsoft makes money selling Windows, Office(+Teams) and Azure to business users then from video games, then ad revenue.

    GBU_28 ,

    Missed the point

    Kbin_space_program ,

    Oh I got your point, but I also reject it. Google is objectively making the internet worse.

    There isn't any reasonable comparison to Apple or MS outside of they're all too big and too unregulated.

    GBU_28 ,

    Well, that's wrong. They all collect data and telemetry on you.

    rhebucks-zh ,

    Hitler also tortured people

    GBU_28 ,

    Ok

    Vlarbgersplah ,

    I see it as good reason to distance myself from all of these mega data harvesting corporations to the best of my ability. Same goes for meta and tiktok. Why bicker about which is worst when they all are varying degrees of terrible?

    Kbin_space_program ,

    Yup. It's a slow process for me, but honestly the fediverse is proving a great resource for that.

    delirious_owl ,
    @delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

    You know they can suck up Activity Pub and sell that too, right?

    The only difference on the fediverse is that all of them can mine the data, instead of just one of them.

    helenslunch ,
    @helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

    The difference is in what type of data is made available. They can't suck up your IP address through ActivityPub.

    helenslunch ,
    @helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

    Why bicker about which is worst when they all are varying degrees of terrible?

    Because using none of them is unrealistic.

    Vlarbgersplah ,

    It takes some effort, but this is untrue. You can easily degoogle many phones with a privacy oriented OS. If you want to avoid Apple, make sure you're not buying an iphone. Install Linux on your computer and use libre open source programs, a privacy oriented email and messaging app. If you need to watch youtube, at least use a proper front end for it. I don't think anyone needs facebook or tiktok, I've been able to just walk away from those without alternatives.

    There are manageable approaches to distance yourself almost entirely from these spy companies if you really want to. You can do it slowly, or pick one company at a time to get away from. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, and even small steps in the right direction are beneficial to your privacy.

    possiblylinux127 ,
    @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

    Not really although its hard to objectively prove anything

    ursakhiin ,

    This is entirely speculation on your part.

    Google has been more transparent that it happens. Apple is definitely collecting information on everything you do on their devices as well. It may be just as much info.

    With their new pay later feature, you know they are at least collecting enough info to make financial decisions based on your profile.

    They also collect health data using the watch.

    They collect more than that in order to better understand how to keep people in their ecosystem. I'd wager the latter will about cover what OP was surprised by Google capturing.

    Microsoft is another story. They are the most valuable tech company in the world right now due to AI. Which indicates that they are training some powerful AI on data that has been gathered in a number of places.

    tyler ,

    Fucking whataboutism. Apple and Microsoft aren’t ad companies. They’re hardware and software companies. They don’t have to collect data on you to literally make any money, Google does. If Google doesn’t track everything you do they’re incapable of making money. The same is absolutely not true for ms and Apple.

    TheAnonymouseJoker ,

    Apple collects more data on you than Google, if you ever bothered to carefully read Douglas' report on Android and iOS data collection instead of dogwater pro-Apple propaganda articles. Apple also makes a ton of revenue from ads, just in case you were sleeping in a cave.

    wall_inhabiter ,

    I take it you mean Douglas Leith who is the first result?

    TheAnonymouseJoker ,

    Yes. He is the one who did a lot of privacy tests/reports, and a lot of people intentionally misinterpreted the results, mostly in pro-Apple camp.

    wall_inhabiter ,

    Whataboutism? Where did I say this makes what Google is doing better? They all work together. God you people are dense.

    Microsoft and Apple absolutely are ad companies lmfao.

    possiblylinux127 ,
    @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

    Microsoft is a ad company and Apple locks you in so you only buy there proprietary products. I don't see how they are better

    wall_inhabiter ,

    Apple is still an ad company they just want to cordon off their "private ad system" with their VPN products and hide my email shit. Don't trust Apple at all myself

    phoneymouse , (edited )

    In regards to how much data they collect from you, which is the topic of this discussion, I’d say they are better. Everyone likes to defend Google because they offer you cheap or free things, but the truth is that comes at the cost of them surveilling everything you do. That’s their business. This knee-jerk response to say “well, Apple does it too” is not only almost completely wrong, it misses the distinctions between the two companies and their business models. Also, even if Apple actually did collect as much data as Google that is not an argument to keep using Google products.

    possiblylinux127 ,
    @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

    I don't use Google, Apple or Microsoft products. My statement wasn't intended to be a justification. I'm just saying Apple and Microsoft are no worse that Google

    rhebucks-zh ,

    especially now that they give out Windows upgrades for free

    kbotc ,

    Feel free to go request the same fucking data from

    Apple: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102208

    And Microsoft: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/18/how-to-download-a-copy-of-everything-microsoft-knows-about-me.html

    Then go ahead and tell me they’re in the same ballpark as what Google’s collected on you.

    wall_inhabiter ,

    What you're able to request from these companies officially is just the tip of the iceberg. The point is that between phone numbers, email reuse, google analytics etc with fingerprinting, and operating system telemetry, a complete picture is assembled of users.

    If you're not looking for arguments and instead approaching things from understanding surveillance maybe my statements will make sense now.

    kbotc ,

    It is literally not the tip of the iceberg. I work in the industry, so lecturing me about data management platforms is asinine. Microsoft and Apple’s collection practices are minuscule compared to Google’s and DMPs are terrible at their jobs.

    wall_inhabiter ,

    Lol? Way to discredit yourself as a clueless fucking rube. "I work in the industry and I take everything my employer says at face value" is not going to convince me bucko.

    Why don't you start talking about Apple's third party ad service servers if you think you know where all the data is going? They leak everything even if they don't officially retain stuff. It's all theatre for employees and regulators and the EU.

    delirious_owl ,
    @delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

    The point of calling ou twhataboutism is that we should condemn both of them

    phoneymouse ,

    Google is by far the worst offender. Their business model is based on collecting this data. Microsoft wants this to be their business model too. Apple just wants to sell you devices, and they are promoting themselves as privacy friendly, I’m sure they’re making some effort to avoid collecting data they don’t need.

    wall_inhabiter ,

    Apple is only promoting themselves as a privacy company to try to get VPN customers to move to their iCloud plus and shit. It's like Micro$oft moving into open source. I really don't think it's ever wise to take a company's philosophy seriously it's just a way to manage customer and employee expectations temporarily.

    phoneymouse , (edited )

    No, I think Apple is promoting themselves as a privacy company because companies like Google, Meta, and Microsoft are abusing your data and you and it’s actually a great position to take and way to distinguish themselves from others in the industry. There are countless privacy features on Apple products that they initiated which show they’re pretty damn serious about it… MAC address hiding, killing 3rd party cookies and forcing Google to too, blocking trackers, encryption of cloud data, granular privacy controls, cracking down on Meta’s app tracking abuse. I trust Apple a million times more than the others and would rather pay extra for a device knowing my info isn’t being vacuumed up in the same way the others do. Tired of neck beard nerds defending the practices of these companies. Google and Meta are privacy nightmares. Google is the original privacy nightmare. It is spyware. You can’t convince me that aPpLe iS wOrSe just because you have an ax to grind with the company. The truth is there is a big difference between them and your whataboutism bullshit is lame and overplayed and also WRONG.

    wall_inhabiter ,

    Oh my God I've triggered the Apple FOMO dorks. Please get a life

    Churbleyimyam ,

    Data has become even more valuable with AI. All big tech outfits are incentivised to collect it now. Combine that with them being able to and you're left just having to trust them.
    If you plan to use their stuff that is.

    Etterra ,

    I gave up caring years ago when I realized it was way too late to undo it all. If Google really cares that I'm a gamer then oh well, at least my ad blockers work just fine and I use Firefox so that's good enough.

    glasgitarrewelt ,

    It is never too late. Free yourself from this abusive relationship, it feels fantastic.

    Coreidan ,

    Free yourself from what exactly? I think you’d be surprised at how much everything else is tracking you still.

    All for what, avoiding ads you’ll get anyway?

    glasgitarrewelt ,

    Legitimate question. Targeted ads feel obvious to many, but it is more about control.

    • Google knows more about you than your partner or you yourself know about you. And they know how to use that knowledge. The scariest part: this control over you is for sale.
    • Google controls how you use things. By being the defacto standard in so many things, they have the power to control how things look, feel and are beeing used. We are missing a lot of innovation because of that.
    • Google can basically decide, which business survives and which doesn't. It's not the one with the better product, it is the one which pays more money to Google. By that it helps to promote big companies, small businesses have a hard time to establish themselves. Even in my small citiy: if the new barber doesn't pay for Google placement and begs for useless 5-star-ratings, he won't survive.
    • It is hard to get out! You are getting lulled in with convenience and you unlearn how to use the internet outside of Google. Google takes prisoners and puts them in a plushy cell.

    I think you’d be surprised at how much everything else is tracking you still.

    You are absolutely right, I am surprised again and again. But I do my best to avoid it, if I find something that tracks me. And I am surprised that so many people let themselves being exploited, and even defend this exploitation.

    Free yourself! It is work. But it is worth it. And it is not too late.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • privacy@lemmy.ml
  • random
  • incremental_games
  • meta
  • All magazines
    •