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Thrickles ,

Stubborn? Windows 11 does not support my older hardware. With no other reason to upgrade, I'm not dropping that kind of cash just for Windows 11.

Regardless, I fully migrated to Linux last year.

piracysails ,

Which distro did you choose?

Thrickles ,

Hopped around for a while and enjoyed Fedora the most. I'm now on Bazzite and love it.

piracysails ,

Nice.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Nobody wants new features. If they wanted new features they would have gone to W11 already. They just want less bullshit.

whoisthedoktor ,

You want "new features and more"?

Linux.

You're welcome.

MeDuViNoX ,
@MeDuViNoX@sh.itjust.works avatar

I want old features and less. 😞

(I'm still switching to Linux.)

bitwaba ,

Old features and less? No problem. Just don't install X, a window manager, or a desktop environment. It'll be just like the DOS days!

Crozekiel ,

I'm curious, could you skip a a DE and window manager and still run full screen graphical applications like games? Run it really like the DOS days when you just changed to the correct directory and ran the executable and then doom launches...?

bitwaba ,

Id imagine all games rely on at least the X server running to handle the display.

I know back in the day you could do some cool stuff with framebuffer, but I don't know if you'd get 3d acceleration today even if you installed the drivers, because they probably need a bunch of libraries that are packaged as part of DEs/WMs

If you just want the experience of launching graphical stuff from the CLI, that can be done. You'd still install all the packages for your chosen display server and WM/DE, then you can write a small bash script that launches a desktop session and starts your program, then closes the desktop session after you exit the program.

Laser ,

less comes with all distributions I know

FonsNihilo , (edited )

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    Katana314 ,

    Video Games.

    RememberTheApollo_ ,

    Popular usage of PCs does not revolve around gaming.

    Darkenfolk ,

    My guy has been living under a stone for the past few years it seems.

    CoCo_Goldstein ,

    It does in my house.

    e8d79 ,

    For PC gamers Linux is the only alternative but I don't expect a major migration. The last ten years have shown that the average gamer is willing to accept a lot of hostile behaviour from companies as long as they are able to keep playing their games. Microtransactions, Loot boxes, kernel level anticheat, and broken buggy releases haven't killed that industry yet. Windows 11 is just another thing that will be loudly complained about in gamer circles but not much will come of it.

    FonsNihilo ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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    lud ,

    The most regular pc user probably only got a work computer that runs 10 or 11 and they will likely have no choice since most companies don't support Linux clients. My work actually does which is neat. I would absolutely use Linux at work, if working with Windows wasn't my job.

    piccolo ,

    Honestly, I've had less issues gaming on linux than windows... unless your playing a game with anticheat where the devs break shit on major updates (though valve is usually quick and has a patch for proton within a day).

    hightrix ,

    This is it. Everything “just works” on windows. Until that exact same experience is available on Linux it will never take over. And no, I don’t mean “there is an app you can install for a distribution that makes it easy to…”. That is an immediate failure. It needs to be easy to do everything, out of the box, with no additional setup.

    I say this as someone that uses windows, Mac, and various flavors of Linux every single day. I want this for Linux, but it isn’t there.

    Nommer ,

    Exactly this. I'm comfortable in both windows and Linux. I tried Linux as my daily driver multiple times on my main PC but it was always not worth the effort. I don't have days of free time anymore to mess with Linux as my main OS. I put Ubuntu on my laptop and while it worked I was often spending days troubleshooting some bug, either with the touchpad not working or with with the disro itself trying to something as simple as an image preview when selecting pictures to upload to discord or whatever.

    I've spun up dozens of virtual machines on my server at home and that's where Linux just works. After I get it configured I've almost never needed to touch it again. Until Linux gets the basic user experience as easy as windows then people will stay with windows.

    areyouevenreal ,

    Well yeah Ubuntu is shit. I haven't had nearly this many problems. I also don't use the latest hardware which helps immensely.

    Nommer ,

    It's not just Ubuntu.
    "Just don't use modern hardware" is not a solution.

    areyouevenreal ,

    Fedora, Arch, Void, and other distros with newer kernels have less issues with new hardware. By not using the latest hardware I mean hardware that's been out a year or two. Not stuff that's ancient. You probably won't have any issues with the latest CPUs and GPUs on say Arch, but it can be an issue for things like WiFi cards or on distros like Debian, Linux Mint, and Ubuntu.

    Nommer ,

    How do you not see why that's a problem? Telling someone to not use new hardware is not a solution, it's a shitty work around. You're just proving my point that Linux is not ready for main stream use. Unless all you do is read email and Facebook then sure Linux will work but for people actually trying to enjoy their PC, it's bad. You people are actually delusional.

    areyouevenreal ,

    I do a lot more than browse email.

    Also you seem to have lost track: new hardware is only really a problem with distros like Debian and Ubuntu. Even then you can make it work by adding a newer kernel - I actually did this to run Ubuntu on a brand new machine.

    CPU and GPU companies put a lot of effort to make their latest stuff work with Linux, but that only holds true on recent kernels. Intel WiFi will also work fine, again on newer kernels. The issue is companies like Broadcom, and distros with old kernels.

    Nommer ,

    You still are missing the point and I doubt you'll get it. To the average user they don't give a fuck why it doesn't work. It doesn't work. And until it does then the average user isn't going to jump through hoops to make their hardware work.

    areyouevenreal ,

    Yeah that's actually a valid point. More distros should use newer kernels for hardware support reasons, to improve the OOB experience.

    It wasn't what you said before though was it? I don't think that was me not getting the point so much as you changing what you said.

    Installing drivers on Windows used to be quite common, still is common for some devices, and it's actually often easier to install drivers on Linux than it is on Windows. So I don't think it's too unreasonable to make people install drivers or kernel using an included utility.

    octopus_ink ,

    I don’t have days of free time anymore to mess with Linux as my main OS.

    I get paid to deploy and troubleshoot Windows. I use Linux at home. Do I do this because after spending hours forcing Windows to behave as desired I want to come home and do the same to my Linux box? No, I do it because Linux is reliable and easy, and it's not built on a premise that someone else knows how I want my computer to work better than I do.

    Having to fight against what MS wants (or throw up your hands and accept it) is now baked into Windows. Even if I had to spend hours to use something else, I would.

    I don't intend this to disparage you, I say this because comments like quoted always ruffle my feathers. As if everyone who uses Linux has said, "Welp, I know this takes hours a day of my time to use, but dammit I'm just stubborn."

    NO, this is not what using Linux is like for the majority of people who choose to use it, even for gaming. If it's like that for you, then you need a different distro, or different hardware, or you aren't actually as comfortable with Linux as you think you are.

    And it's OK not to be comfortable with it, no one sprang from the womb knowing Linux - but to imply that Linux requires hours of time to use vs Windows is IME very false. Yes, it requires people to learn new things, but no one came from the womb knowing Windows either - most of us have just been exposed to it continuously and have invested that learning time without even realizing it since we've always been "forced" (to one degree or another) to use it.

    Drummyralf ,

    So have you tried music production with Linux? Installing VSTs is exactly that: hours upon hours of banging your head against a wall with Wine.

    There simply are usecases that don't work out of the box with Linux that do on Windows because the companies don't support Linux.

    octopus_ink ,

    There simply are usecases that don’t work out of the box with Linux that do on Windows because the companies don’t support Linux.

    I know this to be true, but generally folks who are in a corner case know they are a corner case and express it as such when they make such comments. 99.999% of people will never have to experience what it's like to produce music on any platform, for example.

    I tried to explicitly capture this in my comment:

    NO, this is not what using Linux is like for the majority of people who choose to use it

    Drummyralf ,

    I think you vastly underestimate how many edgecases there actually are. Every one edge case might be a small userbase, but combined, all those small userbases make a significant userbase for whom Linux is less than ideal. And (just a hunch) on Lemmy, this % of users is actually larger than the population at large. Tech-savy people tend to use more obscure programs.

    Some edgecases I happen to know(because I happen to fall into three edgecase groups!)

    • VR
    • adobe stuff
    • Many music plugins

    Those are two creative edgecases. And I believe using your PC for creative work is actually quite a significant userbase.

    And sometimes even IF a product is supposedly supported on Linux, it doesn't work straight up. I recently tried to install Ubiquity's Unify program on my Pop!OS, but nope, errors before even installing. Happened to need all kinds of weird dependencies that are outdated and are hard to install. Even when following Ubiquity's install guide. On windows it just worked. Another edgecase, but it adds up.

    So I disagree on your "majority" statement. Especially on Lemmy, I don't believe that to be true at all.

    But meh, maybe agree to disagree.

    octopus_ink ,

    But meh, maybe agree to disagree.

    Fair! I have some rebuttals, but they are likely to end up with a conversation that would be fun in person over a beer but cumbersome and a lot of typing via text. 🙂

    Nommer ,

    You're wrong but okay. I've tried it on and off for over a decade and I always come back to windows. Not because it does everything I want but because it just works. As I've said, I used it for both desktops and servers and it's always the same for desktops. Linux has always given me some sort of problem for every day use no matter the distro or hardware. I've used Debian, Ubuntu, red hat, and opensuse. First laptop I tried Ubuntu on ages ago the wireless never worked and dozens of attempts to fix it didn't work. Tried it again a few years later on a gaming PC I built and had to tweak every individual game to get it to work with wine. Plus there was always some audio bug I had to fix with sound or microphone just not working. And I could never get the same FPS as in windows. Once that PC died I built another one with windows. My previous build I dual booted windows and Linux and I had to switch to an ultra buggy alpha version of Debian to get my 1080 to work. When I went to uninstall that distro because it was too unstable, grub nuked the boot record and I couldn't even get back into windows despite all the attempts I made to repair the MBR.

    This is all coming from someone who is college educated in this field so no I'm not some random chucklefuck who doesn't know what their doing. I really dislike it when you Linux fanboys just brush off legitimate critisms because you personally haven't had issues. Linux is not a mainstream OS and quicker you guys accept that then maybe we can move past this bullshit of having a free and open source OS that is unfriendly to use and move in to fixing the issues that's preventing people from switching.

    octopus_ink , (edited )

    Linux is not a mainstream OS and quicker you guys accept that then maybe we can move past this bullshit of having a free and open source OS that is unfriendly to use and move in to fixing the issues that’s preventing people from switching.

    Man, I don't care if anyone switches or not. Convincing people to switch isn't something I consider any kind of priority, and I don't think it should be a priority for anyone. Linux is here, and happily used by many without these hours and hours of problems, and it's constantly getting better. It's there for the folks who want it. Windows has been on a downward spiral since Win2K went EoL, and each and every year I'm more and more surprised by the abuse they heap on their users. But, it's fine with me for that to be fine for some folks.

    I disagree with the specific sentiment I quoted for the specific reasons I described. I don't claim it's for everyone, nor that corner cases don't exist. It's entirely fine for us to disagree on this.

    Edit--

    I went back to reread my comment to see what was so offensive or could have been taken so negatively. I do think I should have included a "probably" near the beginning of the sentence below. Aside from that, yeah.

    If it’s like that for you, then you need a different distro, or different hardware, or you aren’t actually as comfortable with Linux as you think you are.

    Nommer ,

    Why don't you just fuck off? I really don't care about your personal experience. Mine wasn't good and I've been using it for over a decade. Congrats you had zero problems. Your experience doesn't match mine. Here's a fucking cookie.

    Asshole.

    ChaoticEntropy ,
    @ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk avatar

    "It works fine if you follow a 10 stage guide filled with terminal commands to configure it properly, which describes commands that are different in your distro."

    Cool.

    octopus_ink ,

    I use a modified Windows 11 OS that debloats the shit out of it, and disables all non critical MS garbage.

    This is it. Everything “just works” on windows.

    🤔

    interdimensionalmeme ,

    What is stopping anyone from selling a laptop with linux on it and as little support as they do for windows ?

    FonsNihilo ,

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    interdimensionalmeme ,

    Because that's 4% that is competition free. Not counting the majority of users who only need a browser and won't be able to tell the difference anyway. Just call it anything but linux, so they have useful search results if they have any problems.

    randomwords ,

    Nothing, and so they do. Dell will sell you an XPS 13 with Ubuntu installed. Lenovo will let you select Ubuntu or fedora in some models. System76 and Tuxedo will sell you a bunch of laptops only with Linux. Starlabs sells Linux laptops. KDE sells a laptop. Purism sells Linux laptops.

    Did you just assume no one sells a Linux laptop?

    interdimensionalmeme ,

    Never saw one at costco or wallmart or staples.

    Twitches ,

    I thought Google announced Chrome OS is dead. Don't disagree with your other points though. Chrome is fantastic for somebody just needing something to check their email.

    c0ber ,

    and yes, I know they are both based off Linux.

    maybe pedantic, but macos is actually bsd based.
    chromeos being based off of actual linux(gentoo) is what has allowed them to slowly open it up to the point where you can actually install regular linux apps on it

    tomalley8342 , (edited )

    slowly open it up to the point where you can actually install regular linux apps on it

    The linux running Chrome OS is completely separated, by design, from the virtual machine that runs linux apps under Chrome OS.

    areyouevenreal ,

    My guy knows nothing about containers

    Delusional ,

    It's almost like they're trying to make people switch to Linux and kill PC gaming altogether. Luckily gaming on Linux has come pretty far.

    tron ,
    @tron@midwest.social avatar

    I was a late switcher as I had to wait for gaming support. Once I saw what the steam deck was doing and how amazing proton is, I pulled the trigger. It gets better all the time too, sounds like Nvidia users are finally gonna be getting proper Wayland in like less than a month too! It's been so smooth I was able to convince my wife to use it too. She LOVES Minecraft and after I showed her Prism Launcher she was sold.

    arefx ,

    I really wish the anticheat co.panies would get their stuff working on Linux. I know anticheats aren't 100% effective but they are necessary, if you think it's bad with them imagine without.

    piccolo ,

    Which anticheats aren't working in proton? Iirc the major ones work.

    HeyMrDeadMan ,

    https://areweanticheatyet.com/?search=&sortOrder=desc&sortBy=status

    At least 132 games that theoretically should work, but because of bad/broken implementation don't, and 28 games where the linux community has been told explicitly to f- off.

    piccolo ,

    That's just a list of games not worth playing /s

    indomara ,

    No fucking thank you, I have long since completely neutered my pc's ability to update. I updated enough to install drivers and get it stable, and that's it. I don't trust windows.

    Cethin ,

    So much effort to just keep using the same shitty piece of software.

    FonsNihilo ,

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    Cethin ,

    If it really was less effort to move to Linux, a majority of people would have already.

    Oh yeah, because the customer is always perfectly knowledgeable and rational. People absolutely never spend more money to get an inferior product.

    Have you tried Linux recently (or at all)? Most distros hold your hand. If anything, most of them hold your hand more than Windows. The installation is very easy, and it doesn't bug you with a Microsoft account, MS Office, or One Cloud. It's not trying to sell you a bunch of shit you don't need because it's not profiting off of you. You just select what drive you want to install it on (assuming you have an empty one) and let it do it's thing, and you're done.

    FonsNihilo ,

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    Cethin ,

    So if you don't have a clue, do you buy the expensive yet inferior product for ease of use, or spend hours learning stuff you don't want to, to get the free, and better product?

    If you are willing to learn how to hack Windows to work the way you want it to, the better solution is to switch to Linux. The person I replied to is knowledgeable enough to disable his computer's ability to update. They are not an average user. Any user who can manage what they did will have a trivial time switching to Linux.

    No, no Linux distro holds your hand like a OS that comes preinstalled on your PC.

    No shit. It holds your hand more than what this user did, and it holds your hand more than installing Windows, which you'll need to do for 11 to switch. It being pre-installed is exactly the same as someone installing it for their parents, or whatever you said in your other comment with a negative connotation.

    I don't know why people always need to boil things down to what the absolute dumbest least technical user who doesn't have help can do when they weren't what's being discussed. This was a user on Lemmy who has modified Windows to not update. They are spending more effort to stay on Windows than it'd take to switch to Linux, like I implied with my first comment.

    FonsNihilo ,

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    Cethin ,

    I feel like all of your arguments are just from your experience only.

    Personal experience and those that I've heard and seen, sure. As are all of our opinions. I saw the other day someone using Debian (I think, maybe it was another distro) while avoiding the terminal. You can't even do that with Windows.

    96% of people haven't, because they don't want to.

    That is not an accurate statement. The vast majority haven't even considered that there's another option, besides Mac maybe if they're aware of that. It's like saying 99% of people aren't billionaires because they don't want to be. They didn't make a choice.

    For your car analogy, I agree with it. It's pretty accurate. The issue is this person was doing fairly serious maintenance of his automatic car. He wasn't just driving it around because it's easier. They spent time gaining knowledge and experience because they're automatic was breaking down in a way the manual wouldn't have had issue with. They wouldn't have much trouble making the switch.

    FonsNihilo ,

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    Cethin ,

    All of that, just to have a Linux server that could natively handle the default windows file format.

    All of that has nothing to do with standard operation of Linux. I also switched from Windows, and I haven't reformatted two of my drives. They work perfectly fine. They are NTFS. I have used them on Ubuntu, Fedora, and now Garuda. I didn't have to install any other packages or anything for them to work. Debian probably just doesn't include it by default, but every distro I've tried does. Linux doesn't natively support many things, which is why distros include a lot.

    The average Windows user switching their computer will probably choose a desktop focused distro that will include this support by default. It won't be an issue, and if it is then it's only a time-sink, not difficulty, as you move files to storage temporarily while you reformat.

    I won't even start on all the small tedious things I have to on Linux VS doing the same thing on Windows. (I wish g hub was able to run on linux)

    Yeah, some things are annoying, but some things suck on Windows too. Have you ever edited your registries on Windows (I'm sure the answer is yes.) It's not a fun process, and you can fuck things up easily. There's no need to do things like that on Linux.

    As for G-Hub, yeah it sucks it doesn't work, but there's Solaar that does most of it, just in a harder to use package. That's a choice by Logitech to not support Linux though, not a difficulty intrinsic to Linux. They will support it if more people change over.

    FonsNihilo ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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    Cethin ,

    Where did I say Linux doesn't have flaws. You're just here arguing that it can't be useful to a person who is already clearly technically savvy because you have some issue with it or something. You needed to come here and argue with me that it isn't perfect for literally every person because I brought it up as an alternative for someone who is clearly capable of learning it.

    Everything has flaws, and that's especially true for large projects, like Linux, Windows, or Mac. The difference is that with Linux you don't need to fight it with things like the OP had to do where they disabled updates, presumably through registry edits.

    Some people talk about people recommending Linux are loud (it's FOSS and we're on a FOSS platform, so it's appropriate), but the fact some people just have to come and say "it isn't perfect, so you can't recommend it" is insane.

    areyouevenreal , (edited )

    I am sorry but you aren't good at tech stuff if you are having these issues. It's common knowledge that macOS and Windows don't use the same file system, why would you assume Linux is any different? macOS meanwhile can't write to Windows partitions at all by default. Windows can't even read Linux ones. Linux is actually the good guy here, it can read and write to Windows partitions, and even read macOS ones I believe.

    Backing up all your stuff before formatting or reinstalling is common practice. You tried to get away from that by using multiple drives without actually thinking through the consequences.

    Also using Fat32 is a terrible idea. Use ExFAT, or better yet just use a real Linux file system and be done with it. Honestly you could have stuck with NTFS and it would work better than trying to use FAT32.

    This is like amateur hour for running servers.

    Up until this point your arguments sort of made sense. You do tend to run into more issues on Linux than Windows, primarily because of the lack of support from third parties but sometimes because of Linux distro shenanigans too, and the community is kind of toxic. But my god this last couple comments reframe it all. Your trying to do things beyond your understanding then blaming Linux when they go wrong. By the sounds of it you aren't even running RAID or have any kind of data integrity/bit rot protection.

    FonsNihilo ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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    areyouevenreal ,

    Is anything I have said actually wrong? Do you actually have any idea what you are doing?

    areyouevenreal ,

    So why is it manual cars are disappearing if it is the better way to drive?
    Well a few reaons:
    While easy to drive, it is hard to learn, and there is alot to learn, don't ride the clutch, how to start moving on a hill, how to start smooth, you have to constantly be changing gears in traffic, more prone to bad shifts, the car requires more attention, ect, ect.

    Then why does most of the world use manuals? Automatics are mainly a thing in the land of bald eagles and school shootings. Across the rest of the world the manual is still more popular. The fact that so many people can only drive automatic tells me that maybe some of those people shouldn't be on the road, and that maybe Americans are too dumb to drive real cars.

    We live in a reality where Linux is more popular, just not on the desktop. Most smartphones run Linux, and do most smart appliances, servers, and embedded devices. So no Linux isn't harder to use, desktop distributions not run by giant corporations are harder to use for some ineffable reason. Really Ubuntu, Fedora, OpenSUSE, Debian and so on all need to take a page out of Linux Mint, Chrome OS, and so on and become more user friendly.

    indomara ,

    I am the user above, and the writing is on the wall - I am aware that I will need to switch to Linux when I can no longer make w10 work for me, or when it is no longer supported by the games and programs I use.

    The reasons why I don't switch now are more complicated. I use a Lenovo Legion Slim 5 as my daily driver, as I was in an accident and can no longer sit at my desk with the pc I built. This laptop is on a rolling desk over my bed.

    Anyway, while some Lenovo laptops support Linux, this one does not, and my reading tells me that I may have difficulty with certain things. I may have trouble with drivers for the graphics card, I may have trouble with adjusting the monitor brightness or the second monitor, I may have trouble with sound. or even the keyboard.

    There are github pages devoted to helping with utilities to fix many of these problems, but they definitely require troubleshooting, thinking, and planning.

    I have also had a friend who recently switched to Linux, who tried to stream a game for me. Before he switched his streams were flawless, this time we spent a while figuring out how to get his game audio, then the stream quality was abysmal, freezing, and in the wrong resolution, so he played while I googled solutions he could try on the fly.

    Streaming games through discord on Linux is apparently a whole thing. That more than anything keeps me on win10, because I cannot play most of the games I used to play, they require too much movement, so my husband or friends will stream for me.

    I am hoping things become easier as more users join Linux before me.

    This is all a long winded explanation that I am sure you didn't ask for, but I just wanted to let you know that sometimes even people with a somewhat good grasp of tech have reasons keeping them from switching.

    Cethin ,

    I'm sorry to hear about your situation. It sucks the some systems aren't supported. It's very rare, but I guess you may be in that small group. I'd bet some people could help you make it work, but it may require extra effort. The great thing about Linux is you can make almost anything work if you put in the effort, but if the tools aren't already made that'd mean doing it yourself, which probably isn't an option.

    I'm not trying to say Linux is right for you, but Windows does not care about you either. They are leaving everyone behind if they don't follow along. I wish you good luck and good health!

    indomara ,

    I know, just today on my lemmy home page was a w10 user who had their desktop background image changed and the stupid search bar added to their task bar again after an update. This is why I don't allow my machine to update. It's rediculous!

    Linux will be so much better, but it will require some effort and time, and probably some help. I will have to get there, and once I do I know it will be a relief to have an OS that only does what I tell it to!

    Thank you for the kind wishes stranger. I wish you health and happiness as well. I am sure you will see me again after I have made the leap, with some silly question or another. :)

    bitwolf ,

    Unfortunately for us, Windows 10 is stubbornly popular because we dont want the new features.

    (We also dont want a new CPU just to upgrade).

    bjoern_tantau ,
    @bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de avatar

    Another great ploy by Microsoft to increase Linux adoption.

    jettrscga ,

    I just dual booted Linux Mint yesterday when I was reminded of the Win 10 end of service date, and hope to keep with it as my main system.

    Linux has come a long way with compatibility since I last tried it ~10 years ago. The fact that Steam games ran perfectly without an evening of configuring settings blew my mind.

    atocci ,

    I set up a second SSD with Bazzite for dual booting, but it's not practical for me to use as a daily driver yet. I have a Nvidia GPU, and the drivers just aren't up to par with their Windows counterparts yet. I could tolerate not having HDR, but also not being able to use 2 monitors with different refresh rates at the same time is killing me.

    There's an update in the works that should fix at least the multi-monitor problem, but still no HDR.

    VindictiveJudge ,
    @VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world avatar

    Do you know if Nvidia Surround works? I've been gaming with a tripple monitor setup and would really like to keep it.

    atocci ,

    That I don't know, I only have two monitors and they're totally different sizes so I haven't looked into it, sorry!

    Lem453 ,

    Did you use bazzite with gnome or kde? If I recall correctly, kde plasma 6.1 has support for multi monitor with different refresh

    atocci ,

    I'm on KDE. It's quite an odd problem. If I keep them both set to refresh rates below their max, things work fine. However, if both monitors are set to their native refresh rates, the higher refresh rate one goes blank and the lower one starts flickering. If I disable the lower refresh rate monitor, I can set the higher one to it's max without issue though.

    Essentially, when I'm booting into Bazzite, I need to either disable my second monitor or halve my refresh rate or it's unusable.

    Lem453 ,

    Interesting. If you have some time, might be worth trying to live USB boot drive of something like fedora desktop kde spin or pop_os cosmic DE just to see if the issue persists for other distros.

    I'm theory this should be working now, it's too bad it isn't. My desktop is a 4 monitor setup that I'm hoping to move to a fedora based distro as well.

    atocci ,

    Pop_OS was the first distro I tried before coming to Bazzite. Cosmic sorta worked, but was overall worse... No flickering there, but eventually, a few minutes after logging in, the desktop would freeze. Completely unusable unfortunately. I think Bazzite is fedora based iirc? I don't know, this is my first attempt at anything beyond putting Ubuntu on old laptops.

    Lem453 ,

    Ya bazzite is based on fedora with an immutable file system, so it's called fedora atomic. Fedora atomic then has variants like bazzite, universal blue etc.

    I'm curious if the baseline fedora desktop would have the same issues.

    https://fedoraproject.org/spins/kde/download

    Multi refresh rate on monitors is a relatively new thing for Linux so bugs are still being ironed out. It sucks that things like these are still not at parity with windows but it's improving.

    BassTurd ,

    I'm on Arch KDE and have and Nvidia 2080ti. I can't run Wayland. Otherwise I run 3 monitors, 1 an ultra wide at 120hz. I haven't had any issues.

    natedog526 ,
    @natedog526@lemmy.world avatar

    Honestly my ability to game has what has kept me out of linux. I trialed PopOs a while ago. I will more than likely switch to it when shit starts getting super annoying.

    zcd ,

    Gaming on Linux works like a charm now

    Gerudo ,

    It's the multi-player side that is still an issue though. The anticheat software is a pain.

    BassTurd ,

    Some multiplayer, but not all. Not that that makes it perfect, but I've had minimal issues with multiplayer games. I do not play popular FPS games where anti cheat software is prevalent, so that's mostly why. I did get Ghost of Tsushima the other day, and that is not compatible for online play, but I think that's because of Sony.

    ripcord ,
    @ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

    Personally I've had zero issues with multiplayer. But yeah, I'm also not playing the latest twitch shooters and whatever.

    Gerudo ,

    I'd love to run just Linux, but I don't want to hassle with dual boot for the couple of competitive shooters I do play.

    It sucks because all the other games I play would run without a problem.

    ripcord ,
    @ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, totally understood.

    Wonder if there's any chance the Steam Deck / Linux market share is getting large enough where gaming companies are having to seriously consider fixing this.

    natedog526 ,
    @natedog526@lemmy.world avatar

    This is good news to me since I don't play twitch shooters.

    ripcord ,
    @ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

    It's already super annoying, and this is what people always say. What's it going to take in your case?

    natedog526 ,
    @natedog526@lemmy.world avatar

    As of right now? It'll probably be the drop in support next year. While I have my complaints about Microsoft or any major corporation, for that matter, I'm not the most tech savvy. If Microsoft were to come out and say support is extended, I'll stick with W10. If they come out with an OS that allowed me to pick and choose what software I wanted and didn't load it with a shit ton of bloat ware I'd be all over that like shit on velcro. I know these are pipe dreams, and I will most likely move. For now, I will stay the current course until it's time to jump into the Linux pool and learn how to swim.

    stufkes ,

    Do Ubisoft and Blizzard games run? I keep reading praises about Steam but I am more concerned with the other launchers

    illi ,

    Afaik Steam has a compatibility layer (Proton) which makes the games run on linux, because the SteamOS which is running on the Steam Deck is Linux. There is Wine you could use for games outside Steam, or you could also try running them throuhg Steam.

    Now I have no experience with any of this, but plan to set up Linux dual boot at some point and this is my understanding of things. Somebody better suited will probably chime in with mire details

    imecth ,
    @imecth@fedia.io avatar

    There's the new UMU launcher that allows running proton outside of steam. Winehq also works fine by itself, at the end of the day proton is just a fork of wine with a few patches and relies on plenty of shared components like dxvk and vkd3d.

    theonyltruemupf ,

    They usually do if they don't use kernel level anti cheat. But it's a bit more complicated than Steam. There are guides online. It's manageable but it's not "click play and you're done" like steam

    imecth ,
    @imecth@fedia.io avatar

    Blizzard games have always had good linux compatibility. Might change now that they've bought by microsoft though.
    As for ubisoft games they probably run too, launchers are a pita but they do run, you'll need something like lutris, bottles or heroic launcher to get you started running shit outside of steam, they're not necessary but they make things simpler.

    Artemis ,

    I just wiped Windows from my drive yesterday and committed to Fedora after dualbooting for 15 years...I've been maining Fedora for a while and always kept Windows around "just in case", but never actually seemed to need it. This recall/AI spyware was it for me though. Gaming has been a breeze for a while on Fedora/Linux due to Steam/Proton...such a great feeling to finally be completely rid of Windows!

    CoCo_Goldstein ,

    I've got Win 10 and it works fine. I have no reason to upgrade to Win 11. If any new 'feature' gets added to Win 10, I will disable it.

    BombOmOm ,
    @BombOmOm@lemmy.world avatar

    Please don't. Just keep providing security updates for an extended time and don't make Win 10 worse with these 'features' that are keeping people away from Win 11.

    stardustsystem ,
    @stardustsystem@lemmy.world avatar

    But muh platform growth!?!?! It just needs more AI, that'll get the people upgrading

    Guy_Fieris_Hair ,

    Nobody wants more AI.

    MeThisGuy ,

    I'm already hallucinating

    Starkstruck ,

    From what I've seen, pretty much everyone from techies to the tech illiterate HATES AI Implementations. Yet corporations keep trying to shovel it down our throats. When are they going to admit no one wants this?

    Guy_Fieris_Hair ,

    They are shoveling it down our throats because the corporations want it. The more they can get it to do without having to pay us poors, the more money they can keep in their pockets. AI has to mine data to learn, so they are trying to put it everywhere to learn. On your OS like copilot doesn't just learn what you type in on a specific site, it learns EVERYTHING you type, everywhere. Then later, Microsoft doesn't need to pay people writing code for them, doesn't need to pay customer service reps. Then they can sell either copilot or its learned data to other companies. WE ARE NOT THE CUSTOMERS, WE ARE THE PRODUCT.

    ANYHOOO, I have no idea how AI works, I am talking out my ass, but this is my tinfoil hat rant.

    Halcyon ,
    @Halcyon@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    That's not how AI learns.

    muntedcrocodile ,

    I mean u missed a couple steps but u got the gist of it.

    JeffKerman1999 ,

    Yep the few people that say "with ai my job has improved" are the people that were shit at their job. Like a dude was so happy on linkedin about how great it is to have chatgpt do the analysis of some csv, it would have been soooo difficult with a spreadsheet...

    I have copilot because my company is ms partner and we have all the GitHub stuff and whatnot. It's only useful when creating mock tests and it creates values for variables. Stuff that before I was doing semi manually using a library to create the values during the test. Otherwise the suggestions are plain wrong or so convoluted (and I wouldn't know if they are right because I don't understand what's happening) that I would never allow it in the codebase, it probably took some l337code/codegolf challenge as an example...

    ByteMe ,

    I think it's obvious. They paid a whole lot of money, it turned out not as life changing as they thought and definitely not as good so they are trying to make us hooked to get back on the money

    QuadratureSurfer ,
    @QuadratureSurfer@lemmy.world avatar

    I think when you say "Hates AI" you mean "Hates ChatGPT"

    "AI" itself has a lot of awesome uses, ML models with DLSS, robots that can maneuver over different terrain, image generation, audio transcription, etc.

    Even with LLMs, I'm fine with them as long as I was the one that was able to pick and choose the model as well as the software to use to run it.

    variants ,

    That's the point, make wi does 10 worse so people will update

    gravitas_deficiency ,

    But W10 likely won’t ever get the “feature” of OCRing your entire workspace and serializing the results to plaintext.

    JeffKerman1999 ,

    Who knows, maybe it will

    gravitas_deficiency ,

    Nah. That would require them to retroactively change the hardware requirements for the OS, which they’re simply not going to do.

    urska ,

    Just switch to Linux, problem solved.

    Wootz ,

    Sure, will you call the it admin where I work and tell him I'm switching?

    I want to switch to Linux just as much as you, but at work I have literally zero influence over this. Private OS choice and enterprise / corporate are very different things, and businesses refusing to switch away from Windows is a very big reason why Microsoft's behaviour lately is a big deal.

    ripcord ,
    @ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

    OK, so what are you running at home?

    JeffKerman1999 ,

    I... don't have a computer at home?

    Plopp ,

    Jesus, have we gone full circle already? There are people with no real computer at home again?

    unexpectedteapot ,

    Smart phones and their consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

    JeffKerman1999 ,

    I work with computers and clouds all day. I don't really want to spend more time on it.

    Plopp ,

    I respect that and I wish I could say the same. Sadly most of my hobbies and interests are computer based so I pretty much have to.

    sangriaferret ,

    I haven't had a computer in over a decade. I'm not a luddite, I just haven't had a need for one since I got a smart phone.

    Plopp ,

    That's pretty much exactly what I meant with my comment. Not having proper computers at home because they're replaced by smartphones.

    ZILtoid1991 ,

    Some problems:

    • Stability. For me, Linux on a VM (where I'm using it for development and getting myself familiarized with it) was a stability nightmare. Everything could go wrong after an update (I'm looking at you, Ubuntu 24.04), or even a restart, with no easy way to recover.
    • Lack of an easy recovery. On Windows, you can recover your OS from a faultry update easily. If a bit more things have gone wrong, just use the installer, to resurrect your own installation. On Linux, you're on your own, and while sometimes it's an easy fix, other times you're better off reinstalling your OS, leading you to have to restart a lot of other things, which leads to lost time that could have spent better with doing something productive. I've wasted hours on recovering data from a Ubuntu 24.04 installation which decided to no longer work in GUI mode, and it ultimately ruined my sleep schedule.
    • A lot of settings are hidden deep within config files, which need manual editing, and even worse, googling, which on today's internet, will likely lead you to an AI generated site filled with garbage. I managed to kill the Linux installation on my Raspberry Pi, which lead me to the previous point of having to reinstall, then having to google even more settings because Raspberry Pi OS had the great idea in the newer versions to "make setup easier", thus tieing your location settings and your keyboard layout, so I had a Hungarian layout that I had to change, as it's horrible to use for software development (a lot of commonly used characters are on the Alt Gr layer, and there's only one Alt Gr key, the other Alt is a dedicated menu key - thanks IBM!).
    • Production software and drivers. While Wine is fine for a lot of games, but try to use software with way more sophisticated copy protection schemes. They're already a pain to use on Windows with the original keys and such, now imagine them on a Windows emulator. Good luck with trying to find VST plugins, which copy protection can be 100% removed!

    I'm not a good UX designer, but my first two rules for anything GUI related are:

    1. If it can be done by a single button press, it should be a single button press on the GUI.
    2. If it can be an easy configuration, it should be an easy configuration on the GUI.

    Linux, alongside with many other projects in the FOSS community, regularly fail both of these, in favor of scripts, which are fine, but have their own issues. Your average user's average usecase does not involve "very repetitive tasks that are just perfect for some shell scripts".

    Ephera ,

    I'm not here to argue that Linux is flawless if you just do this one obvious trick, but rather to say, for you in particular, with the issues you described: You might enjoy openSUSE more.

    It comes with filesystem snapshots out-of-the-box. As in zero setup. And you can rollback to a previous snapshot from the bootloader, even if your system does not boot anymore.
    So, assuming neither your filesystem nor hardware broke (and you noticed the breakage right away), it takes 5 minutes to get back to a working state.

    It also comes with an extensive system settings GUI, called "YaST". It certainly does not completely absolve you from touching config files. It also will not make you weap from how intuitive of a GUI it is. But it is a GUI and it covers lots of the common stuff that one might tweak on a computer.

    I do also find openSUSE to be less error-prone than Ubuntu in general (my workplace makes me use the latter).

    Main downside of openSUSE: It is more niche. The community is smaller. When you do run into an error, there's fewer articles out there to help you. In particular, setting up specialty software like DAWs, VSTs etc., you may find less help for.

    But the small community is more tight-knit and consists of lots of folks with higher expertise, so if you ask in the forum or some other place where the community hangs out, you will usually still get rather excellent help (and perhaps better help than what search engines unearth these days).

    areyouevenreal ,

    Ubuntu is bad, that's why you are having stability issues. Stop using it.

    Also it's dead easy to recover a Linux installation that has snapshots. Just boot the previous snapshot and go. Also could just use an immutable Linux if not breaking things is your main concern.

    ZILtoid1991 ,

    Oh yeah, let's get rid of a checks notes a common and basic feature of an OS, because it's trendy with some programming languages to set everything to const, because people are not being taught what a debugger is and how to solve these issues with them...

    areyouevenreal ,

    Android and ChromeOS are also immutable, this isn't just a trend. Stop being insufferable. You don't have to go to using immutable OSes, using something sensible and stable with snapshotting would work just fine. Like OpenSUSE, or Fedora. Setting snapshots up on Debian I think is more work but still doable.

    ZILtoid1991 ,

    I think you also want to call me a tourist, mallcore, fashiongoth, fake metal Linux user, for not wanting to join the Arch cult...😉

    areyouevenreal ,

    Erm, no lol. I don't even use Arch. I've tried it don't get me wrong, but I don't understand the fascination with it personally.

    areyouevenreal ,

    Also the reason I am recommending you move away from Ubuntu is because of what Canonical has done. I actually was a fan of earlier versions of Ubuntu, even Unity.

    VerticaGG ,

    🐧

    blind3rdeye ,

    The "and more" is the worrying part. They're telling us that some of the things they are adding are not 'features'. So then what are they?

    Ads, probably. That's the trend these days. More and more ads, in everything, everywhere - just really probing the limits of tolerability.

    the_ocs ,

    And AI, screenshots

    Sam_Bass ,

    Its not that 10 is more popular, its that 10 is less jacked up. Start jacking 10 and we'll all go back to 7

    lost_faith ,

    When I saw yesterday that M$ was doing a new beta for win 10 my first thought was "Well people don't want to switch to 11 cause of the garbage we keep adding? Let's see if we can get the same garbage in 10, then they will be willing."

    Sam_Bass ,

    Willing to what? Adopt a penguin?

    areyouevenreal ,

    Switch to 11

    Sam_Bass ,

    Nope. On second thought, downloading ubuntu 11.10

    skyy ,

    Start jacking up 10 and we'll all go to Linux

    Sam_Bass ,

    Millions already have

    SuspiciousCatThing ,

    Not 8?

    Sam_Bass ,

    If you wanna go 8, go ape

    IzzyScissor ,

    Please no. I didn't upgrade to Windows 11 on purpose. I'm just trying to hold out as long as I can until I'm forced to switch to Linux. I don't want to have to deal with more enshittification in the meantime.

    interdimensionalmeme ,

    Just turn off windows update. Security people are catastrophizing to justify their jobs, ignore their siren call.

    rickyrigatoni ,
    @rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee avatar

    Windows is still extremely unsecure even with the latest security updates so how much worse can it really be

    interdimensionalmeme ,

    I turn off UAC and defender too, those are basically spyware anyway. Even minimally competent should have no problem by just not downloading viruses and staying behind NAT.

    areyouevenreal ,

    Windows 10 LTSC

    Omegion ,
    @Omegion@lemmy.ml avatar

    windows is now just a joke.

    embrace the windows 7

    the_crotch ,

    This message was sposored by United Botnets of Eurasia

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