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Apple plans to charge fees for sideloading

Who would've thought? This isn’t going to fly with the EU.

Article 5.3 of the Digital Markets Act (DMA): "The gatekeeper shall not prevent business users from offering the same products or services to end users through third-party online intermediation services or through their own direct online sales channel at prices or conditions that are different from those offered through the online intermediation services of the gatekeeper."

Friendly reminder that you can sideload apps without jailbreaking or paying for a dev account using TrollStore, which utilises core trust bugs to bypass/spoof some app validation keys, on a iPhone XR or newer on iOS 14.0 up to 16.6.1. (ANY version for iPhone X and older)

Install guide: Trollstore

rottingleaf ,

Yes, well, the whole point is that them following the law means that their assistance warranting fees (like running a store) isn't required. So I hope they get nailed.

HumanPenguin ,

No fan of apple. Don't own a single product.

But my guess they are planning to argue thay this part of the rule.

"at prices or conditions that are different from those offered through the online intermediation services of the gatekeeper."

Mean they cannot allow free side loading when many apps on their store have to pay to be available. Also as they have rules limiting the apps allowed via their store front. Allowing free side loading without checking the activities of the app. Would also be allowing conditions different from their store.

My guess is they want to argue that the law is badly formed and cannot be followed while providing a safe enviroment within your own services.

TheBlue22 ,

I refuse to ever use a single Apple product.

LemmyTryThisOut ,

Yeah, I mean or you could just stop buying Apple products.

maness300 ,

My rationale is this: apple users love spending money, so they can go ahead and spend it.

Fuck'em.

tcrash ,

People like being fucked

ryder ,

True that. If people actually cared we would see better things in the world for example - Firefox dominating the market. Now I don't care if people use Brave/Samsung/Chrome/Vivaldi/Edge but the fact that they may all lead to Google dictating the Open Web sucks.

WeirdGoesPro ,
@WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I love that you bring up web browsers as an example while saying that Apple users don’t care enough about the technological landscape. Safari is the leading competitor to chrome! Without those Apple users sticking to the browser they know on the system you ridicule, the problem you’ve identified would be worse.

WeirdGoesPro ,
@WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I’m an Apple laptop user with a Linux server. I love Linux and have thought about switching many times, but I don’t for the following reasons:

My Apple computers have lasted me twice as long as any other brand I’ve owned, and they don’t really die—they just get so old that I want a new one.

I never have to worry about incompatible hardware at any time, nor do I have to check for compatibility before upgrading my OS.

They never charge for a new OS, all of their basic software is free, and in some cases better than Microsoft Office.

Whatever product I use from them, it is definitely going to feel high quality.

The screens are always really nice, and everything is guaranteed to look crisp and clear.

They cost more money, but it isn’t like they give you nothing for it. If Linux isn’t a great option for some reason, an Apple device is going to be much less exploitative with advertising and spyware than Windows is.

I understand where the hate comes from, but I wish some Apple haters would back up for a minute and realize that there are power users who have perfectly good reasons to like that hardware.

LemmyTryThisOut ,

Apple MacBooks and iMacs don't have this side-loading issue like their mobile devices do. You can install anything you want to as long as it's supported on a Mac, and from anywhere you want. So they are more or less a more premium Linux variant. I'm not sure why you came in here thinking this discussion applied to non mobile devices.

WeirdGoesPro ,
@WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

The base of this chain I’m replying to says “Apple products”. The comment that I am directly responding to is calling out all Apple users. More broadly the thread is about phones, but this particular side stream was about Apple in general, and I was providing my two cents.

rowdyrockets , (edited )

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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    WeirdGoesPro ,
    @WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Amen to that.

    I’m yet to find a single thing I need to do on my phone that required a side loaded app too. I’m sure there are cases, and I am glad the option exists, but it isn’t like people with a normal iPhone are completely shackled.

    I think a lot of power users out there would be pleasantly surprised if they took another look at Apple with a more open mind.

    DJDarren ,

    A say “sad” because you could call me a “Google-hater” but never in my life have I wasted time shitting on everything anti consumer thing they do.

    I use Apple products, think they're a shitty company, but who offer the best products in a world of shitty companies. And as someone who's used Macs since 2007, I've noticed time and time again how people will shit on me and my choice of computer while I never shit on theirs in return.

    Do I bitch about Windows on the occasions I have to use it? Yes, of course, because it's fucking terrible/ not what I'm used to, but I appreciate that some people are happy to use it, or have to for whatever reason. My criticism of the OS isn't a personal attack on anyone who uses it.

    But yeah, my choice of computer is a personal failing, apparently.

    🤷🏻

    Railcar8095 ,

    As counter point, this law also prevents Google and Microsoft from going this route.

    So as a non apple user, this helps us in the long run.

    Octagon9561 ,

    As someone who uses both Android and iOS, I appreciate my Pixel 8 Pro running GrapheneOS (a custom version of Android) more and more.

    Chakravanti ,

    Do you face recognition or use a password? I can't get passed pixel 3 for fingerprinting and even that cuz I can manually lock off the truely unstrustable method fingerprinting. That but not well enough. I honestly despise the gorramn pixel and can't wait til my Librem gets useable.

    Octagon9561 ,

    I use the fingerprint sensor. Don't get a Librem, it's a scam and security on it is a disaster. Stick with GrapheneOS. Heck, stock is more secure than the Librem, believe it or not. I wouldn't touch that thing with a 10ft pole.

    Chakravanti ,

    I got it already and I have zero doubt in it. Your accusation will not cut me any doubt. I've heard that bit extensively and I have an entirely different awareness of it.

    Also got Librem 13. Dunno what actually broke on it but I swapped the NVMe on it and sent back within the 3y warranty I bought on it and they sent me it again but it didn't work and sent it back and they sent me a brand new one. That was after two years and the replacement lasted another two years. Dunno what's really wrong with it and haven't messed with trying to fix it myself out of the warranty now yet

    I tried for the months to get GrapheneOS to work and made zero success with installing it. Tried CalyxOS after all that and got it done twice with success one one day on each two Pixel 3 and Pixel 4 (XL's on both, total two days).

    How do you get Pixel 8 work with the fingerprint? My 4 stuck me with the gorramn password. Which, in all fairness was the best thing ever because that is thus far the most secure device I've set up. Nothing but the password is truely to ONLY secure device arrangeable.

    Having different functions available for different passwords at varying levels of accessfor shorter security is the best option that does NOT exist. Even the Librem doesn't get that higher level of tiered access setup...*sigh...yet.

    Octagon9561 ,

    I won't stop you from using the Librem but at the end of the day a false sense of security is more damaging than anything else. I can with 100% certainty assure you that even your average Samsung phone has better security than the Librem. A phone with absolute abbysmal and ancient hardware that Purism sells for 10-20 times the cost of an equivalently powerful Android phone from AliExpress. Heck, even the PinePhone (which also runs Linux) sells for like $200 and has better hardware. Purism is a scam company. I know you don't want to hear this but it's the truth.

    You set up the fingerprint sensor on the Pixel 8 like any other Android phone. Either during first setup or by going into your security settings.

    Chakravanti ,

    I know better than to ever give Samsung any money let alone any respect or delusion of security.

    At the end of the day you are trusting someone you don't know with all sense of identity, privacy, and knowledge of yourself: location, history, and money.

    Fuck that. I'll take FOSS.

    As to fingerprint. How so? There's no longer a fingerprint reader.

    Octagon9561 ,

    The fact is there's no privacy without security and the Librem doesn't have the latter.

    The sensor is built into the display.

    Chakravanti ,

    You trust Samsung. I'll take you word with a grain of salt.

    As to pixel. Ty. I'll have to look into that.

    Octagon9561 ,

    Ask the GrapheneOS Discord/Matrix. They’ll tell you the exact same thing.

    Chakravanti ,

    I think I'm good with CalyxOS. Don't have the time to dig into working with GrapheneOS. Kind of Didn't to begin with.

    Octagon9561 ,

    Don’t use Calyx: https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm

    Chakravanti ,

    Salt

    lowdude ,

    This is a rather specific question, but can you cast audio from arbitrary apps to WiFi speakers from your Pixel? Similar to airplay on iOS (if that's what it is called)?

    LainTrain ,

    Via Chromecast if the speaker supports it yeah

    jvrava9 OP ,
    @jvrava9@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Exactly the same here P8P gOS and using an iPhone as a testing device (Jailbreaking etc)

    BaardFigur ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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    masterspace ,

    I will never switch to iOS until they allow both sideloading and other browser engines.

    I hate that I buy my phone from a shitty advertising company like Google but atleast they don't treat me like a child and let me use my universal turing machine universally.

    BaardFigur ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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    lemmesay ,
    @lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    i have unlocked bootloader of every single smartphone I've ever had, ranging from Xiaomi, Samsung, Motorola to Google.

    pixels are the easiest to unlock. there are several mediocre things about pixels(battery life, refresh rate, etc.). but unlocking bootloader isn't one of them.

    BaardFigur ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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    CancerMancer ,

    why the hell would you root a device supplied to you by your employer? It's not yours.

    BaardFigur ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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    lemmesay ,
    @lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    I steer clear of doing anything personal with work related devices. but even then, Android at least allows for two separate profiles.

    kawa ,
    @kawa@reddeet.com avatar

    Only on Samsung for the fuse thing. That damned Knox.

    thoughts3rased ,

    They don't give you root access out of the box because the vast majority of users don't want or care about it, whilst being a pretty wide open door for bad actors. As far as I know, pixels are the easiest android phone to flash stuff too. I've only heard of Samsung blowing e-fuses upon flashing custom ROMs.

    BearOfaTime , (edited )

    Saw an article just today about Apple allowing other browser renserinenfijes wtf autocorrect, I typed engines, but only in the EU.

    OK, so how do I make iOS think it's in the EU then?

    sane ,
    @sane@feddit.de avatar

    other browser renserinenfijes

    what happened there lmao

    Threeme2189 ,

    No idea, must be the auto renserinenfijes.

    BearOfaTime ,

    Autoincorrect and I didn't notice. Wtf? Hahaha

    Or I was having a stroke

    helpmyusernamewontfi ,

    Support small refurbishing shops online and buy your phone used from them, and put Linux or another Android fork such as Calyxos or Graphene on them. Works great for me.

    Got_Bent ,

    Sorry, can't be bothered with whatever issue this is.

    I'm busy shopping for a North Face tent so I'll have it to camp in the next time a new ear pod case gets released.

    uriel238 ,
    @uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    I suppose they can charge to use their own side-loading software, or their alternative app store, but I'm not sure what happens if a third party offers a side-loading platform that doesn't pay Apple.

    I suppose they can just refuse to allow such platforms to exist, but the EU may not feels that satisfies their grievances. Eventually they're going to have to require side-loading.

    Unabart ,
    @Unabart@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    All these dorks overly concerned what OS people run on their phones. Go out and get laid, you fkn nerds. Who gives rippled shit what people do with their phones? Who watches the DnD table when you’re all here flexing over your stupid telephone operating system? You sound almost as dumb as the Arch people. Maybe you are one and the same! 🤡

    FabledAepitaph ,

    This person is proud to pay extra money for no reason lmao

    Unabart ,
    @Unabart@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    They can do whatever they fkn want, you silly neckbeard.

    FabledAepitaph ,

    Seems like you have really strong opinions on something you want people to think you don't actually care about. Also, I'm probably way hotter and have banged way more babes than you ever have, so you can keep your neckbeard comments, bud. :3

    RandomVideos ,

    IOS is the worst operating system i have ever used

    Why do people buy it?

    FrankTheHealer ,

    Because it's cool apparently.

    kevincox ,
    @kevincox@lemmy.ml avatar

    It's cool because it is expensive so it is a status symbol. Just like wearing expensive jewelry is cool.

    I don't need people to think I'm cook if that is their criteria.

    daellat ,

    Or get a fold phone if you want to burn money 💰

    focusedkiwibear ,

    y'all people that keep saying 'status symbol' or 'expensive' really haven't bought a phone in like a decade, right? because android phones are costing the same as apple flagships. how ignorant can you be?

    kevincox ,
    @kevincox@lemmy.ml avatar

    Why do you think the prices rose? Maybe a little inflation but also because they wanted to be perceived as as good or better than the iPhone. So they had to match or exceed the price.

    And this price match won't change consumer perception overnight. Apple already had the "premium" perception and it will stick around for a long while.

    Tja ,

    Because it's familiar, easy, pretty and does a lot of thinking for you.

    original_reader ,

    Familiar only if you worked with it before.

    Easy... fair enough.

    Pretty... debatable.

    Apple established itself as a luxury brand. So it gives customers this "prestige feeling". That's at least my take.

    Tja ,

    Yeah, I agree. I used it for 6 months for work and it's not my thing, but plenty of people seem to love it. I guess the high price is actually a feature.

    sfgifz ,

    Think different, but stay the same,
    In Apple's world, that's the game.
    A touch of irony, don't you think?
    In a sea of similar, we all sink.

    LemmyRefugee ,

    I have both an iPhone and a Samsung. Both work well but I still prefer the iPhone though it’s a 6 years old one. I’m not an expert but I feel like every app use more familiar choices for design.

    fuckwit_mcbumcrumble ,

    Have you actually sat down and used iOS as your full time phone OS for a week? If you're used to android then yes there's quirks you have to learn. But after being a diehard android user for years I could never go back. And that's that I still use both every day since my work phone is Android and my person phone is an iPhone.

    DAMunzy ,

    I just can't not have a back button that's always in the same place!

    fuckwit_mcbumcrumble ,

    Swiping from the left is almost universally a go back in ios.

    With android's gestures it simulates pressing the back button which is really awful. But iOS does swipes correctly.

    OsrsNeedsF2P ,

    Only if apps follow the IOS design patterns. I know at my previous company, we didn't. And neither does the official Reddit app: https://frankrausch.com/ios-navigation

    BearOfaTime ,

    Hahaha iOS swipe is awful.

    If you 4 finger swipe now it goes back to previous app. Do it again now it goes to the app you just left. Wait a few seconds and it's anybodies guess where it goes.

    Even worse if you bring down the "notification" screen... Supposedly swiping up makes it go away, but it rarely works. Same with pulling up the app bar while in ful screen apps - that takes two swipes, and the second one has to be just so, not too fast, not too slow, and within some weird timing - try it too soon and it just doesn't respond.

    Apple's swiping system is just a fucked up mess. (I use iOS all day long).

    fuckwit_mcbumcrumble ,

    Swiping to go back to a previous app isn't the best, but Androids implementation is just as janky. Once you figure out what the delay is for the current app to be the "latest app" then it's not awful.

    Maybe iPad OS is different, but I don't ever have any issues with full screen apps on regular iOS.

    Dyskolos ,
    @Dyskolos@lemmy.zip avatar

    What button? Haven't used a button on android for years now. Except power+volume ofc

    DAMunzy ,

    One of the 3 virtual buttons that always display (4 for me since I have the accessibility button displayed also). (Background, homepage, and back- reverse order for standard android. I have Samsung)

    AnUnusualRelic ,
    @AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

    Why not use the standard swiping gestures, it's much more convenient and much faster.

    Soggy ,

    I hate gesture controls. Even more fiddly and imprecise than fake buttons. Pinch zoom, scroll, and change page are more than enough.

    Dyskolos ,
    @Dyskolos@lemmy.zip avatar

    How come it's more fiddly? It works soooo smooth and reliable. And that coming from a dude who can't type one error-free word on the phone.

    Soggy ,

    My general problem with touchscreen controls is chance of error and lack of feedback. I want buttons. I don't want to accidentally do a thing because I idly swiped at the screen while looking away briefly.

    focusedkiwibear ,

    lol the gesture controls on modern smartphones are overwhelmingly less fiddly (read: not at all) than your horrible excuses for defending an outdated piece of technology like 'buttons' when much better options exist.

    focusedkiwibear ,

    lol back button - how freaking 2000s. buddy we just move our finger left on the screen and we go back. like are you a caveman? this is Android fans these days, crowing about obsolete pieces of their technology like it was good. it wasn't then it really isn't now.

    UsernameIsTooLon ,

    iOS always felt slower tbh. Like it takes an extra step or two to do similar tasks. That and I love sideloading, rooting, and putting my homescreen apps towards the bottom too much to ever fully switch over.

    BearOfaTime ,

    I use iOS every day.

    It SUCKS.

    If all you want to do are the things Apple decides you can do, and want to do things only Apple's way, it's great.

    I choose Apple phones for my work phone, since it's managed by the company anyway, so even an Android would be locked down. And it's not like I would use a corp phone for the things I do with my personal phone - there's too much risk in that.

    Apple won't even allow apps to sync photos automatically. I don't want to use their cloud, at all. I just want photos I take synced between my devices using a single tool. No reason for those photos to go anywhere else.

    Currently I sync files, automatically, between a dozen devices. All my photos from every laptop and Android phone go to the same folder on one machine. Anything I download with any device is available, almost immediately, for all other devices.

    Except for my iOS devices. They can't play in this game, even though the same apps are available on iOS.

    fuckwit_mcbumcrumble ,

    If all you want to do are the things Apple decides you can do, and want to do things only Apple’s way, it’s great.

    Which is what most people want to do, and that's why so many people love the iPhone.

    Supposedly photo sync will back up all your photos to a local machine. iCloud does everything you'd want it to do minus the local server part. But once again that's not what 99% of people want to do.

    CancerMancer ,

    I chose Apple for my work phone for only one reason: battery life. It is a wildly inferior experience for anyone who wants or needs more than just a phone. The way I have to send photos and documents through other services just to get them to my computer, the utter lack of control of the phone's file system, no sideloading...

    If for any reason what you need can't or won't work through the Apple ecosystem, iPhones go from feeling pretty smooth to being an obstacle, and I'm not paying $1000+ for an obstacle.

    the_nightman ,

    Privacy and security mostly I would imagine

    OsrsNeedsF2P ,

    Closed source software can't be audited, so it can't be secure. If software isn't secure, the exploits rid it of any privacy.

    See: The bimonthly remote takeover bugs that keep getting found. Like this one: https://citizenlab.ca/2023/09/blastpass-nso-group-iphone-zero-click-zero-day-exploit-captured-in-the-wild/

    "Oh whoopsy doopsy, looks like your iPhone, camera, files, GPS and more were accessible to someone who sent you an iMessage.. for the third time this year"

    BorgDrone ,

    Closed source software can't be audited, so it can't be secure

    That’s the biggest load of bullshit I’ve ever heard.

    Closed source software is audited all the time.

    OsrsNeedsF2P ,

    Ok let me rephrase - nobody without a conflict of interest can audit a closed source application. If Microsoft paid for an audit of Windows, that doesn't tell you anything about whether or not Windows is backdoored.

    BorgDrone ,

    The audit is not for you. Closed source software is audited all the time, but the results of those audits are generally confidential. This is about finding security bugs, not deliberate backdoors.

    The key with this is who do you trust. Sure, open source can be audited by everyone, but is it? You can’t audit all the code you use yourself, even if you have the skills, it’s simply too much. So you still need to trust another person or company, it really doesn’t change the equation that much.

    OsrsNeedsF2P ,

    In practice, most common open source software is used and contributed to by hundreds of people. So it naturally does get audited by that process. Closed source software can't be confirmed to not be malicious, so it can't be confirmed to be secure, so back to my original point, it can't be private.

    I didn't go into that much detail in my original comment, but it was what I meant when I first wrote it. As far as "does everyone audit the software they use", the answer is obviously no. But, the software I use is mostly FOSS and contributed to by dozens of users, sometimes including myself. So when alarms are rung over the smallest things, you have a better idea of the attack vectors and privacy implications.

    BorgDrone ,

    In practice, most common open source software is used and contributed to by hundreds of people. So it naturally does get audited by that process.

    Just working on software is not the same as actively looking for exploits. Software security auditing requires a specialised set of skills.
    Open source also makes it easier for black-hat hackers to find exploits.

    Hundreds of people working on something is a double-edged sword. It also makes it easy for someone to sneak in an exploit. A single-character mistake in code could cause an exploitable bug, and if you are intent on deliberately introducing such an issue it can be very hard to spot and even if caught can be explained away as an honest to god mistake.

    By contrast, lots of software companies screen their employees, especially if they are working on critical code.

    OsrsNeedsF2P ,

    I don't know if you really believe what you're saying, but I'll continue answering anyways. I worked at Manulife, the largest private insurance company in Canada, and ignoring the fact our security team was mostly focused on pen testing (which as you know, in contrast to audits tells you nothing about whether a system is secure), but the audits were infrequent and limited in scope. Most corporations don't even do audits (and hire the cheapest engineers to do the job), and as a consumer, there's no way to easily tell which audits covered the security aspects you care about.

    If you want to talk about the security of open source more, besides what is already mentioned above, not only are Google, Canonical and RedHat growing their open source security teams (combined employing close to 1,000 people whose job is to audit and patch popular open source apps), but also open source projects can likewise pay for audits themselves (See Mullvad or Monero as examples).

    I will concede that it is possible for proprietary software to be secure. But in practice, it's simply not, and too hard to tell. It's certainly not secure when compared to similar open source offerings.

    DingoBilly ,

    Because it's a brand and people are morons who need external validation. Same reason for most brands - you pay a lot more for the same thing so you can seem cool or like you have money.

    Buttons ,
    @Buttons@programming.dev avatar

    I wanted a fast laptop without a fan and with a big haptic feedback touchpad. Happy to hear about non-Apple options for this.

    locuester ,

    These are fascinating requirements. Mind explaining?

    sfgifz ,

    Fast, quiet, big touch pad. What'd fascinating or out of the world here? These are just kind of things most people want, not everyone wants to manually update their kernel or whatever.

    Gestrid ,

    I've got an Asus ZenBook (specifically this one that came out last year). It does have a fan, but it's pretty quiet. I barely notice it most of the time. It's pretty fast, too. Don't know how large of a touchpad you want, though.

    Buttons ,
    @Buttons@programming.dev avatar

    Doesn't look bad, but I'm guessing it doesn't have a haptic touchpad? (Clicking is equally easy anywhere on the touchpad, because there isn't actually a click, the click is simulated by a vibrator.)

    Gestrid ,

    No, there's no haptic touchpad. TBH, I didn't even know that was a thing.

    JasonDJ ,

    I think Apple trademarked having a big touchpad. And possibly also one that works.

    ADTJ ,

    Think you might have confused iOS and MacOS

    GenEcon ,

    MacOS is even worse than iOS. Have to use it for work. And while the hardware is the best I've ever used, the software is complete garbage.

    Railison ,

    Desktop OSes today range from acceptable to abysmal.

    • I put the user-focused Linux distributions at acceptable now that Flatpack is resolving a long-lasting issue with desktop Linux.
    • The built in advertising and privacy invasion makes Windows 11 abysmal, though it seems they’ve finally found their rhythm on the UI language front
    • macOS these days is firmly in mediocre territory. Window management hasn’t kept up with developments in other platforms and the OS feels dumb now. We had a very good OS in the Snow Leopard days, but that Apple doesn’t exist anymore.
    ADTJ ,

    Oh yeah, I completely concur. I don't get the ux argument either, I always find it to be incredibly slow and frustrating to use whenever I have to

    focusedkiwibear ,

    lol this is such a weird blanket statement that means nothing. congratulations, you can baselessly slam something you don't like. Why are you the way you are, is the better question. iOS has clear benefits and there are a plethora of reasons of why one would choose an iPhone over the other options.

    but GO OFF, random internet pleb.

    TicklishRocket ,

    Crapple

    flop_leash_973 ,

    I can't say I am surprised. Apples view is that since they made the device and provided the software they are entitled to a cut of anything that happens on it, because that software makes use of something Apple created.

    I don't agree and think it is a crazy view. But that sort of corporate mindset is one of the reasons I have never been big on Apple products.

    maness300 ,

    Apples view

    So, these companies will throw whatever shit at a wall to see what sticks.

    Their "view" is constantly probing how low people's standards are so they can do the least while charging the most.

    It's called "maximizing profit."

    LemmyRefugee ,

    I think it is not open source so they feel like they control everything about that. The EU seems like it disagrees with that.

    Sensitivezombie ,

    It's hard to imagine people who buy iPhones care about sideloading. Their priority is the convenience of iMessage and the Apple ecosystem.

    M500 ,

    I care about sideloading and imessage. If imessage was available on android, I would be using a pixel at the moment. It's just that I am from the US but don't live their. So imessage is the easiest way for me to be in touch with 99% of the people I know.

    maness300 ,

    The convenience of... texting?

    Lol. Sometimes I feel you ppl just regurgitate what you've seen before without realizing it.

    LemmyRefugee ,

    The texting thing seems to be something real in the USA.

    KingThrillgore ,
    @KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

    Classic Apple.

    Dyskolos ,
    @Dyskolos@lemmy.zip avatar

    Remember their slogan from back then?
    "does more, costs less!"

    Classic.

    Just like when google silently removed their slogan "don't be evil".

    CancerMancer ,

    Just like when google silently removed their slogan “don’t be evil”.

    They didn't just remove it, they changed it to "do good". I'm not sure what that means to Google but it sort of looks like "implement the neoliberal cyberpunk hellscape no one asked for"

    erranto ,

    Those who buy apple products deserve each other.

    laughterlaughter ,

    Exactly my thoughts. "Let's jailbreak this, bypass that, circumvent that one thing..." Why do you subject yourself to this with a device you paid hundreds of dollars for?

    As much as I'd like to have an iPhone, I'd rather not.

    As an aside, it's the same thing with game consoles. Is the whole "you must be connected to the internet" thing still happening? That's what has been preventing me from getting a new xbox, for example.

    SeekPie ,

    Steam Deck is pretty awesome in the offline gaming regard, if that's what you might be looking for.

    Toribor ,
    @Toribor@corndog.social avatar

    I'd argue that there are a lot of offline mode frustrations with Steam but none of them are Steam's fault, they are all due to individual games online requirements or DRM implementations.

    yamanii ,
    @yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

    Uh, it's actually quite the opposite, most games you need to at least open them one time while connected to the internet for offline to work.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itBscLjRCPc

    uranibaba ,

    But that is not the fault of Steam Deck, which was discussed.

    SeekPie ,

    At least you can run the games in offline, even when you have to log in the first time.

    kevincox ,
    @kevincox@lemmy.ml avatar

    Steam literally warns you for every game. It tells you if you need to be online once or online every time. I don't think you can blame them. If you buy games that require an online activation you can't get upset that you can't play offline.

    Example games:

    • Always online

      • Singleplayer gameplay requires an active Internet connection

    • Online activation

      • This game's first-time setup requires an active Internet connection

    I do wish that this wasn't hidden inside of the "Steam Deck Compatibility" section. (There is a yellow box about third-party DRM outside, but for the details you need to click the Steam Deck Compatibility box) But that is my only complaint.

    Personally I just don't buy these games.

    Gestrid ,

    I remember way back when I had my iPod Touch 4 (haven't touched Apple since then) that I (intentionally) jailbroke it simply by tapping a button on a website in Safari. It was an exploit that used a bug in iOS's PDF software, I believe.

    laughterlaughter ,

    I remember that technique as well. I thought it was neat.

    gapbetweenus ,

    I have a macbook and I'm quite happy, what am I doing wrong?

    Capitao_Duarte ,
    @Capitao_Duarte@lemmy.eco.br avatar

    Honestly? Nothing. People just say this kind of thing because we like to tinker with our devices. If what you bought satisfies your needs and you don't need more, that's just ok. Android/windows/linux has a lot more conveniences for my use, so that's what I go for, but not everyone is the same

    gapbetweenus ,

    Android/windows/linux has a lot more conveniences for my use

    That's kind of my point. I don't get the aggression people have for someone using different brand.

    sugartits ,

    Tribalism.

    gapbetweenus ,

    Sure, but tribalism with a brand is just beyond my understanding (hyperbole), - it's so stupid.

    Croquette ,

    Apple influence the market a lot. So paid side-loading can propagate to other companies if Apple can pull it off.

    gapbetweenus ,

    Sure, but why hate on apple users?

    Croquette ,

    I am not personally hating on the apple users, but considering that people continue to buy Apple products even after these anti-consumer practices, then some people consider that the users enable the company.

    So I can see where that is coming from. And some people are just tribal idiots.

    Capitao_Duarte ,
    @Capitao_Duarte@lemmy.eco.br avatar

    For sure! An amount of "hate" for apple, or any company for that matter, is totally ok. Sometimes they make decisions that screw consumers just for a buck more. No reason to hate on users, tho. That's the same as saying anyone who uses a gas vehicle to go from one place to another is in favor of global warming

    Croquette ,

    I kinda disagree with the comparison, but I agree that it is dumb the blame the users.

    However, from a certain perspective, users enable companies. So some people hate the users for that. And some other people just have a bad case of tribalism.

    mako ,

    I don't get the aggression people have for someone using different brand.

    People identify the business decisions that Apple makes to be anti-consumer. They then feel frustration and anger for users of Apple products as support for their products only emboldens Apple to continue making anti-consumer decisions, such as the subject of this article.

    Apple is a microcosm representation of the evils of capitalism for many people and they project their feelings about it - powerlessness, disgust, anger, etc. - onto users of Apple products. People associate support for iPhones which enjoys a 61% US market share as support for the boot of capitalism on our throats regardless of whether the Apple user doesn't know, doesn't care, or doesn't agree.

    gapbetweenus ,

    So kind of moral consumerism thing?

    mako ,

    If labeling it helps you to understand it, sure.

    gapbetweenus ,

    I just wanted to clarify if I understood the point correctly, labeling just shortens the answer.

    mako ,

    I don't know if you understand the point. I and other users have tried to help. If you have any more specific questions, just ask.

    gapbetweenus ,

    That's why I summarized and asked if that's the case. The hypothesis from the person I replied to, seemed to be that it's due to people believing there is some moral obligation in consumer choice and it extending to apple making questionable, consumer unfriednly decision, therefore they can be mad and rude towards people buying apple products. I can get it.

    SeekPie ,

    Also Apple's anti-consumer decisions usually transfer to other places (such as Android) aswell, because they have a lot of influence on the rest of the market.

    jj4211 ,

    Pretty much this. If other brands see the vitriol, then they might think "well, guess not being that way is a way to be competitive".

    If everyone sounds perfectly cool with that facet, then everyone else goes "sweet, the Apple way gives the vendor more control over the customer, and control over the customer is valued, if we think we can get away with it"

    echodot ,

    If it just remains Apple who did it i wouldn't mind but there they are a bit of a product leader.

    Off forging the way ahead for under consumer BS everywhere.

    mako ,

    Agreed. This is what I was implying by citing their OS market share in mobile devices in the US and I could have clarified better.

    uranos ,

    A MacBook is the only Apple product I'm happy with cause it's actually open in terms of being able to install any app I want and modify some things like how windows are managed.

    gapbetweenus ,

    I had an iPhone, but for my use case they are just to expensive. I have a 100 euro android phone that does everything I ever need.

    linearchaos , (edited )
    @linearchaos@lemmy.world avatar

    Come back when you have a problem with your keyboard*, or your drive, or charging issue. Repairability is downright bad now.

    I like OSX well enough.* I like the form factor of the MacBooks now that they have escape keys again. It's been 9 years since they made a MacBook that was reasonably decent to work on from the inside though. Even swapping a broken screen out is* like 3 hours now.

    gapbetweenus ,

    I'v been using mac books over a decade so not sure when I need to come back here. I was unhappy with the usbc only mac book pro and considered switching but the m1 fixed issues i had, so I'm here again. Just imagine that there are people out there who don't care to much about repair-ability.

    CancerMancer ,

    You don't care that a mainboard replacement will cost you $1100+ but a component-level repair is less than half of that and doesn't e-waste a whole damn board? You don't care that it would cost even less if Apple just sold the damn parts and supplied schematics?

    gapbetweenus ,

    No? I care that I have reliable piece of hardware that is physical sturdy, that I don't have to inform myself on different hardware configurations before buying but just look at my budget and buy the one I can afford, I care about the way fonts are displayed, I care a lot about magsafe since it saved my laptop so many times, I care about the touch pad - since I even do 3d work with it and forgot how to use a mouse.

    Why is it so difficult to understand that people have different priorities? Like I can see, how repair ability might be important for someone, not everyone is like me.

    Also in more than a decade I didn't have to replace anything.

    CancerMancer ,

    Also in more than a decade I didn’t have to replace anything

    Honestly I doubt that. I've seen many Macbook failures in my time and they are always things other laptops don't suffer. I purchase and track IT software and hardware for an organization of over 10k people and I've seen what lasts and what doesn't. The regular laptops we use? We get 4 years out of nearly all of them, and 6 if we replace the batteries and upgrade any dated bits. There are the odd designs that failed early (HP Elitebooks from a few years ago...) but most are reliable.

    There are two devices I avoid buying at all costs and make clients give me a lot of supporting rationale for, because they have poor build quality and are utterly unrepairable: Microsoft Surface, and Apple Macbooks. At scale, running these is incredibly expensive for no good reason.

    Example of an issue that has happened: client was running a bunch of VMs and filled up the SSD on their Dell laptop. I replaced it with a larger SSD rather than buy an entire device.
    That happens on a Mac? Tough because that SSD is soldered in. On that note, good luck extracting that data if the mainboard fails. That was fun telling someone they lost a mountain of data.

    gapbetweenus ,

    Honestly I doubt that.

    Not sure why I would lie, but feel free to not believe me. Maybe I'm just lucky, I had three macbook pros and the only problem I had was a battery dying on one, but it was close to where I needed a new one anyway. And I need my hardware to be reliable and the conditions I use it are rather suboptimal (live events). Never turned off on me or died during a gig. I had a windows machine from a venue once - it started updating 10 minutes before the gig.

    Like I don't care about the brand, I have a cheap android phone because it gives me exactly what I need. Just happened that apple produces a device that fits my needs. If I ever see anything that fits my bill but is cheaper, I would take it in a second. I don't have any brand loyalty. Switched from olympus, to nikon to sony - if you into photography you will get it.

    Mango ,

    You're supporting manipulative evil business practices.

    gapbetweenus ,

    Don't get people that upset by using microsoft or google products. It something about apple that makes people quite unhinged.

    Mango ,

    Uhh no. If you think that, you're not paying attention at all. Most of the main feed of Lemmy is raging at Google right now and Microsoft is only catching a break because Bill Gates recently got together with ultra wealthy people writing a letter asking to be taxed.

    gapbetweenus ,

    Not the companies the users of their products.

    Mango ,

    We've been pushing people to lessen their reliance on Google for ages now. We've even been developing a replacement software store
    Suite called FUTO! The difference between Apple and Google though, is that Apple's users continue on despite Apple being so very obviously evil. Google is at least being a creep about it.

    https://youtu.be/CjOJJc1qzdY?si=xQw-qEnQ5HxDum4d

    gapbetweenus ,

    Love that you yourself used a youtube link. I find it very interesting how judgmental people almost always put themselves outside the measures they apply to other people.

    Mango ,

    That's where I find Louis Rossmann and his audience.

    gapbetweenus ,

    You are ok with people who repair macbooks but not with people who own macbooks, the plot thickens.

    Mango ,

    Oh, you're one of those. We're done here.

    gapbetweenus ,

    Sorry to disappoint you. So you are judgmental and somehow thin skinned - best combo.

    LemmyRefugee ,

    There are 3 kind of people when talking about Apple:
    1- fanatics who support Apple,
    2-fanatics who hate Apple and think you cannot like it,
    3- and finally those who just look at the product without thinking about the brand but what you can do with the product (if it suits your needs or not).
    It seems like you are that third kind of person.

    lemmesay ,
    @lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    but apple sets "standards" that other companies blindly follow. it's the reason why we have non-removable batteries, no charger inside the box, no audio jack, etc.

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