Welcome to Incremental Social! Learn more about this project here!
Check out lemmyverse to find more communities to join from here!

homeassistant

This magazine is from a federated server and may be incomplete. Browse more on the original instance.

Stormfur , in Haier, the air conditioner maker, takes down open source third-party Home Assistant integration

The developer commented the following:

Luckily I'm insured. I've contacted my legal expenses insurance and they're covering a lawyer for the case. I will seek advice and see how an expert assesses the situation and then proceed.

Tldr, They are going to fight this!

Source: https://github.com/Andre0512/hon/issues/147#issuecomment-1892738060

Batbro ,

What sort of insurance is that and do I need to get some?

RegalPotoo ,
@RegalPotoo@lemmy.world avatar

It's pretty common for freelance developers to have insurance like this - if I screw up and you get ransonwared, insurance pays for a lawyer to explain the contracts indemnity clause to you using small words

NightAuthor ,

But what if I saved money not talking to a lawyer and never had the client sign an indemnity?

RegalPotoo ,
@RegalPotoo@lemmy.world avatar

Then don't screw up

If you have already screwed up, you now get to play The Game of Litigation, where their lawyers try to prove that you are liable for billions of dollars in damages, and your lawyer tries to prove that you aren't. The way the game works is whoever spends the most on lawyers wins. You've got more cash to spend than your clients right?

charles ,

Most professions where action/inaction can result in damages will have similar insurance. Some insurance firms even specialize in coverage for professionals.

If your profession has an association or similar group, they should be able to help you find those firms if they exist.

tdc ,

Not sure if it's really the freelance/professional thing others mentioned. Private legal expense insurance (Rechtsschutzversicherung) is fairly common in Germany, so might just be that.

Dehydrated OP ,

The developer is German, in Germany it's pretty common to have a Rechtsschutzversicherung. You pay them monthly or yearly and in exchange you can request legal advice from one of their lawyers af any time. It's pretty neat.

Marsupial ,
@Marsupial@quokk.au avatar

Germany sounds ridiculous with how many insurances you have to waste money and time on.

Dehydrated OP ,

Imagine being American and not even having health insurance

Marsupial ,
@Marsupial@quokk.au avatar

Good thing I’m Australian.

Tangent5280 ,

Imagine being Australian

Marsupial ,
@Marsupial@quokk.au avatar

It’s heaps sick eh.

ouRKaoS ,

Imagine being American, having quite expensive health insurance, then discovering your insurance doesn't cover any of your basic healthcare needs.

Duke_Nukem_1990 ,

And then you can't afford a lawyer to fight them on it.

NightAuthor ,

Well at least someone managed to get a lawyer to fight my insurance company who’s leveraged AI to auto process claims and it’s issuing unfounded mass claim denials.

EarMaster ,

You don't have to, but if you do you may have the ability to stand up against a company trying to shut down your open source project...

Marsupial ,
@Marsupial@quokk.au avatar

Or you could just hire a consultant when you need it?

$200 once in your life vs 396 a year, is kinda a no brainer situation.

Varcour ,

You do realize a consultation is just the first step, right? If he wants to fight this he'll need quite a bit more than 200

Miaou ,

Not getting the downvotes, a lot of those are quite stupid. The Rechtsschutz is basically required if you drive for example, only because of game theory, not because it actually brings anything

Marsupial ,
@Marsupial@quokk.au avatar

It’s just reddit group think, sadly we didn’t leave that behind.

I’ve got them disabled on my instance anyway so I don’t even see it. As far as I know everyone likes my posts because I only see upvotes.

NightAuthor ,

Well, I hate this comment and I’ve downvoted it.

AA5B ,

Wow, and it is a real lawyer? I e had employers with benefits that sound similar but I think only get things like templates for common documents like wills and contracts that you can get anywhere, or “free” co suits like you can get anywhere.

I actually do phage a upcoming minor legal need this year, and they couldn’t even tell me , using that as an example, what would the benefit cover?

Dehydrated OP ,

Yes, typically you get to talk to real lawyers. They may not be the best lawyers on the planet, but if you just need some advice, you should be perfectly fine.

alphapuggle ,

In America I just use my buddy Carl. He's also my doctor.

HubertManne ,
@HubertManne@kbin.social avatar

my job has one for about ten bucks a month for employees. covers any need. estate planning, divorce, whatever.

V0uges ,
@V0uges@jlai.lu avatar

Most home insurers in Western Europe provide with the coverage additional legal counsel / coverage in case someone claims we are liable for anything non motor related. And house insurance itself costs just a couple hundreds a year.

scrubbles , in Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice
@scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech avatar

Amazing. Let's truly take it from their point of view.

The only people who care about this plugin are HomeAssistant users, so a very small subset. Those users then either

A) Already own the product, and thus are not going to cost them anything because they already bought it or
B) Home Assistant users who are in the market for their product, and from experience will only buy a product if there's an HA plugin.

In what way are they losing "millions" to these 2 groups again?

I have literally made decisions on purchases like vehicles on if they have a home assistant plugin or not. For HomeAssitant users it's one of the largest factors.

Semi-Hemi-Demigod ,
@Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social avatar

Those users don't send usage data back to Haier that they can then sell to other companies

hitmyspot ,

Yes, but without the plug in, they wouldn't buy the product to give the data. It's circulat logic on their part.

Semi-Hemi-Demigod ,
@Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social avatar

I bet they're using data sales to subsidize the cost of the devices.

SkaveRat ,

that, and I can imagine they fear a giant wave of support tickets from people using HA and having problems

Semi-Hemi-Demigod ,
@Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social avatar

If they have a good support team they already have a form letter for "you are using this product in an unsupported way" and it takes about 30 seconds to process them.

BossDj ,

And let's be honest, someone with the tech knowhow to set up home assistant isn't going to ask Haier for help

otter ,
@otter@lemmy.ca avatar

Yea I don't really contact a company unless someone on a forum specifically says that's the best way to resolve the issue (ex. Account authentication related bugs). Either that or it's specifically related to my purchase

Pretty sure that's the case for my less tech-savvy friends and family too

wreckedcarzz ,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

Subsidize? Oh sweetheart, that's not happening - that's just more profit! Silly goose!

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Unless they already bought it and now have to either throw it away or start using the (presumably) shitty app.

hitmyspot ,

The app already exists, so anyone who has it, will keep it.

Anyone in the market to purchase will now avoid. Their suit will cost more sales than the app, which may have actually generated sales by existing.

princessnorah ,
@princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

…so anyone who has it, will keep it.

I literally saw someone in a different thread about this earlier talking about ripping out their Liftmaster garage doors when they pulled a similar move last year.

DeltaTangoLima ,
@DeltaTangoLima@reddrefuge.com avatar

It depends. My HVAC controller is a similar story to this one, and a dev has put together a plugin for HA that achieves the same thing. But it makes the exact same calls to the cloud service the OEM uses, so I'm certain they're getting the same usage data from me, regardless of the software means I use to make those calls.

dantheclamman OP ,
@dantheclamman@lemmy.world avatar

It is insanely petty. Perhaps they don't want people reverse engineering their APIs, but all their competitors and threat actors likely do it, just not on a public repo.

utopiah ,

I'm in nearly B as I usually only buy things with proper protocols, e.g Zigbee, that might not need a dedicated plugin. So obviously Haier is now a company I won't buy anything from and will actively not recommend to anything who cares about my opinion on IoT.

dynamojoe , in Haier, the air conditioner maker, takes down open source third-party Home Assistant integration

My guess is someone saw what was being built and said "hey, we can build something similar and sell it", hence the C&D.

Dehydrated OP ,

Still a ridiculous move. If I buy an appliance, I pay for it and I own it. I am allowed to do with it whatever I want. If I want to use my own solution for controlling it, hosted on my own server, I should have every right to do so. Fuck corporations and their shitty cloud solutions.

HeartyBeast ,

To be clear, I think the company are idiotic in the way they handled this, but I guess the integration probably hooked into the company's cloud-based services - so their servers.

VisualBuilder4 ,

Bad enough if a air conditioner needs cloud access for smart functions and doesn’t have a local api.

Rai ,

Absolutely. I’ll never buy a device like that if I can’t use a local API! I have no IoT devices and refuse, because they sketch me out.

ironhydroxide ,

I was this way, then got into home assistant and esphome. Now I have iot things like thermostats, garage door openers, air compressor controller, and know exactly how they work and where their data goes. And none of it leaves it's own network (separate vlan).

HeartyBeast ,

I don't disagree.

walden ,

Except instead of something similar, it's always something way, way worse.

jonne ,

The EU really needs to start doing something about this kind of shit.

Tinidril ,

The US does too, but fat chance of that happening.

AzPsycho ,

The Apple iOS method. See a great app or product on your platform. If they won't sell it or want to much Apple just makes their own version and prohibits the original.

bamboo ,

This is actually a thing and is called Sherlocking: https://thehustle.co/sherlocking-explained/

redcalcium ,

Apple is so notorious at doing this, it's not even funny anymore. The article didn't mention these two famous sherlocking cases though:

Reygle , in Haier response to my feedback after Louis' YT video.
@Reygle@lemmy.world avatar

Independant my aching ass. Haier US is Haier corporate's (Qindao) b*tch and everyone knows it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haier

The only "smart" appliance to own is an offline appliance.

aniki ,

If an appliance is really smart, it will want to stay off-line.

stoly ,

lol someone who doesn't know the disaster that is IoT downvoted you over that

RobotToaster ,

It's still a pretty good sign IMO. Brands won't usually distance themselves from their parent companies unless they have a good reason to.

claude_flammang ,

@RobotToaster @homeassistant
Parent company is chinese, the european branch is a sister: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haier

cynar ,

Some are actually welcoming, and provide a local API. That way your air-conditioning control isn't web dependent.

Unfortunately, most are quite stupid about it, and insist on using their app. This voids any usefulness of having smart appliances. E.g. pulse a light in a room when the tumble dryer finishes or turn it on and off dependent on your rooftop solar's output.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Not stupid, just greedy.

They're gonna make money from selling whatever data they can mine from your mobile device and likely selling you monthly subscriptions.

cynar ,

Lazy would be a better description. They want the tech cred of having it be an IoT device. They also hope to leverage it to get more money. Unfortunately, the budget, and coherent drive for this isn't there. The end result is a "designed by committee" app. It ticks all the boxes, but also misses all the things that would help actually get people using it.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

If they were lazy they would have just not done anything and let the HA users carry on.

cynar ,

Just because 1 department is being lazy doesn't mean their legal aren't.

awwwyissss ,

turn it on and off dependent on your rooftop solar's output

I love stuff like this. Turn on the dryer and put the window shades up when the sun's out.

zeekaran ,

... Or has ZigBee/Z-Wave.

philpo ,

or KNX.
or Modbus.

Zigbee is actually not that good of a choice.

avidamoeba , in The little smart home platform that could How Home Assistant plans to transition from an enthusiast platform to a mainstream consumer product.
@avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

In a press release, the foundation stated its aim is “to fight against surveillance capitalism, and offer a counterbalance to Big Tech influence, in the smart home — by focusing on privacy, choice, and sustainability for smart home users.”

Happily spending money on my monthly subscription. ✊

APassenger ,

And working to make voice and AI something we can all have... locally. I'm just a humble apartment dweller, but HA is embedded in a lot of our home.

Wouldn't care to have it any other way.

I pay annually and consider this the most valuable subscription we have for the family.

SharkAttak , in Haier, the air conditioner maker, takes down open source third-party Home Assistant integration
@SharkAttak@kbin.social avatar

When asked for a statement, the company answered "Yes we're idiots, and wanted everyone to know"

ottaross ,
@ottaross@mastodon.social avatar

@SharkAttak @Dehydrated way to ensure all internet searches on your brand deliver a "not compatible with stuff" impression to all prospective customers.

SharkAttak ,
@SharkAttak@kbin.social avatar

Sadly, I know them as one company that makes dirt cheap TVs, so they'll still keep making money.

Marsupial ,
@Marsupial@quokk.au avatar

Cheaper than TCL?

SharkAttak ,
@SharkAttak@kbin.social avatar

Eh, same tier, I think.

MigratingtoLemmy ,

How accessible are the WiFi and IR chips inside their TVs? I haven't tried TCL yet

SharkAttak ,
@SharkAttak@kbin.social avatar

Honestly I don't know, why do you ask?

MigratingtoLemmy ,

If I buy such a TV, those are the first things I will remove.

SharkAttak ,
@SharkAttak@kbin.social avatar

Mmh I understand since I activated Wifi only when I really needed it, but I think you need infrared for the remote.

MigratingtoLemmy ,

Isn't there a way to control a Kodi box, including TV controls like volume and brightness through it? If not, I'll have to consider keeping the IR sensor (which I wouldn't want to do in ideal circumstances).

StrawberryPigtails ,

I almost certain you’re being sarcastic, but please tell me I’m wrong. If that quote is actually true, that would be fucking hilarious!

SharkAttak ,
@SharkAttak@kbin.social avatar

I extrapolated and condensed based on the company actions.

slazer2au , in Ohhh that's why you run actions in Parallel

This is also why testing is important. Speaking of which, when was the last time you tested your backups?

padook OP ,
@padook@feddit.nl avatar

OK daddd (or mommm) it probably is time for me to test my backups haha

slazer2au ,

Good on ya kiddo. If you want we can go to the park and play some catch after dinner.

Pantsofmagic , in The little smart home platform that could How Home Assistant plans to transition from an enthusiast platform to a mainstream consumer product.

HA is an absolute treasure.

Bakkoda ,
@Bakkoda@sh.itjust.works avatar

Agreed. It runs my house and has been almost flawless for a very long time.

AreaKode , in Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

Oh no. At least there's no way for everyone in the world to make a backup before it goes dark...

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

This is the great thing about FOSS. Someone else will just take the code and reupload it. If they want it removed from GitHub, they can deal with Microsoft. At which point it'll just be re-uploaded again. There's nothing illegal about it.

So Haier suffers the Streisand effect and the people who want to simply continue using it.

1stTime4MeInMCU ,

Right… they claim hosting it is a violation of their TOS, but I’m not one of their customers. How can I violate their TOS if I don’t even use their product.

Steve ,

It would be a shame if 697 people and counting were to fork the project, it would be a real pain to serve each one of them with takedown notices.

AbouBenAdhem , (edited ) in Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

TIL General Electric Appliances, Hoover, Fisher & Paykel, Aqua, Hotpoint, Leader, and Candy are all owned by the same company.

reddig33 ,

Sad, isn’t it? For fun, look up Whirlpool, Albertsons, and Kroger on Wikipedia to see all the brands they own. No wonder prices are high when so much competition has been eliminated.

nexusband ,
@nexusband@lemmy.world avatar

For the Europeans, look up AEG, Bauknecht, Electrolux, Liebherr...sad story as well. And one hell of a case for rampant capitalism running amok...

KyuubiNoKitsune ,

BuT ThE FrEe mArKeT!!

nexusband ,
@nexusband@lemmy.world avatar

There's a difference between rampant capitalism running amok and the free market...free always needs rules, or it would be anarchy...

eatfudd ,

Muh freedom

JustEnoughDucks ,
@JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl avatar

Please yell me bosch and Siemens are seperate companies...

nexusband ,
@nexusband@lemmy.world avatar

Nope, they are not, at least in terms of household appliances. BUT they still produce quality stuff in Germany and Europe. And they actually never have been separate. And HomeConnect is commited to HAOS, iirc they actually provide some code to the plugin.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSH_Hausger%C3%A4te

APassenger ,

Quick nofe: Albertsons and Kroger want to be one company. Soon.

Heir_Of_Isildur ,

Noted, thanks

AVincentInSpace , in Haier, the air conditioner maker, takes down open source third-party Home Assistant integration

Better yet, make an example out of Haier. Prove to companies everywhere that allowing open source compatibility can only be good for them.

Dehydrated OP ,

Let's prove to companies that hostility towards open source can be really bad for them

Bakkoda ,
@Bakkoda@sh.itjust.works avatar

I literally buy based off Home Assistant support. If it needs to be smart and it's not supported by home assistant it's not coming in the house.

sbv , in The little smart home platform that could How Home Assistant plans to transition from an enthusiast platform to a mainstream consumer product.

I'm not into home automation, but if I was, I'd much prefer a locally running solution that didn't involve tech giants. I hope this works out.

tburkhol ,

I didn't think I was. I got sucked in by sensors to monitor indoor temp, humidity, air quality... A smart switch to turn lights on and off when I'm not home. Now I'm thinking of how to turn the HVAC fan off when IAQ is good and temperature is comfortable. I'm not ready to have the house turn lights on when I enter a room or start the oven when I get within a mile of the end of my commute, but it's been growing, one $30 gadget at a time with no subscriptions and no data leaving my LAN.

spongebue ,

I have a ton of east-facing windows on the back of my house. It's a blessing or a curse depending on weather and time of day. I always dreamed about them running automatically, and eventually ordered a bunch of Z-wave controlled motorized shades. Then a Raspberry Pi running Home Assistant to control it all.

While I was waiting for those shades to arrive, I got a bunch of Kasa light switches so I didn't have to sweep across the entire house to turn off all the lights every night. Turning the hallway light off after 9:45PM triggers the automation.

The rabbit hole only got bigger from there.

i_am_not_a_robot ,
@i_am_not_a_robot@feddit.uk avatar

Yeah, same. I set it up as it looked like the best way to control my inverter - I wanted to set it to charge from the grid when electricity was free, and discharge during saving sessions without having to do it manually. I then expanded to trying to calculate how much charge I needed overnight in cheap rate based on the solar forecast for the next day...

Anyway, I now have everything on it and keep thinking of things to add.

Chee_Koala ,

To each there own, but i think after all is said and done, automatic hallway lights are just a natural fit and the best addition home automation gave me (as simple as it is). I have automatic lights in more spots because motion detection is easy, but I wouldn't really miss them except in the hallway, where taking the time to flip the switch takes as much time as traversing, and then you still have to turn it off after.

tburkhol ,

I can see that. Most of my house gets enough light - or streetlights at night - to walk through with the lights out at midnight. Add in a lumen sensor, though, to dial lights up when it's cloudy and down when it's sunny...

When I think of automations, it's either things like coordinating big power draws to cheap electricity or trivial quality of life enhancements, like turning out the lights in an empty room. The latter, I have trouble justifying to spend on occupancy sensors and smart switches if it's only going to save 20 Watts of LED or five steps. Once it's become your hobby, it's much easier to say, "I'm going to buy these sensors because they're fun to play with and it gives me joy to see them work."

Lifebandit666 ,

Yeah you buy the sensors because you enjoy it all. The sensors then become even more useful when you realise they don't just pick up motion, but also temperature, humidity, lumens...

Lifebandit666 ,

I recently killed the system I've had running since COVID, lost it all. The first thing I resetup was the hallway lights motion sensor.

It's a 4 floor house, so half of it is stairs. Carrying washing around is so much easier when the lights turn themselves on and off.

I've just written a post about how I missed having my lights turn on with my alarm clock this week. That was really missed!

june ,

Having my hallway and kitchen lights be motion activated and brighter/dimmer based on ambient light is fucking great. If you get there you might wind up loving it like I do lol.

Hello_there , in Presence Detection for a Child with no Phone.

Get a key

AdamEatsAss ,

A logical solution. My guess is this kid has lost keys before. OP wants a way the kid doesn't need to be responsible.

Hello_there ,

Fasten the key to the inside of the backpack in a way that doesn't come off. Kid is going to have their backpack.

breadsmasher ,
@breadsmasher@lemmy.world avatar
800XL ,

Kids lose stuff like keys. Adults lose companies, their minds, and other such things. Leave the kids alone

Sidewalker , in Home Assistant 2024.3: Drag 'n Drop it like it's hot! 🎉

It’s such a small thing in the scope of what this platform does in my life, but Im super hyped for the new UI sugar added in this release.

Concave1142 , in Home Assistant 2024.2: More voice, more icons, more integrations, more... everything!

I love Home Assistant and have been using it for years. It just keeps getting better and better over time! With so many new features added all the time I have just started blowing away my entire VM of it and recreating from scratch to see what's new. It's a good problem to have!

Blue Iris in the other hand... just give me a damn version that runs on Linux natively and not some Wine bullshit.

0110010001100010 ,
@0110010001100010@lemmy.world avatar

Blue Iris in the other hand… just give me a damn version that runs on Linux natively and not some Wine bullshit.

Check out iSpy: https://www.ispyconnect.com/

It can even run in Docker (which is how I'm running it). Not as intuitive as BlueIris but the dev is super-active and responsive to new features and bug fixes. Been running it for a couple of years now and like it.

SkyNTP ,
Concave1142 ,

Thank you for the recommendation. I'll give this one a shot. I think I tried it a few years back so it is time to try it again.

walden ,

Frigate might fit your needs.

thehatfox OP ,
@thehatfox@lemmy.world avatar

Frigate seems fairly popular among Home Assistant users for security cameras.

I think ZoneMinder is still going too which used to be the go to Linux option for that.

huquad ,

Having used both these and Shinobi cctv. Frigate is by far the best. I can't recommend it enough.

lemming741 ,

Frigate just released v13!! I can't wait to try it out this weekend

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • random
  • homeassistant@lemmy.world
  • incremental_games
  • meta
  • All magazines