I always figure it out, but Linux is not user friendly. The last issue I had was trying to get my vpn to work. It took me a few minutes to realize my vpn provider doesn't support a gui on there.
This is the issue with Linux. It needs better support and adaptation. If it got that focus from third parties, I'd gladly make it my daily driver.
Here's to hoping the attempts from companies like steam are only the beginning of a new thriving trend!
I have about as many tech issues with Windows as with Linux -- It comes with me enjoying tinkering as a hobby I think?
BUT, and this is important, when shit breaks on Linux, there is always output on the terminal, or a log file, or something else you can check, and even when I don't know what to do about it, a simple copypaste of the error on internet search usually gets me some answers.
When shit breaks on Windows? HOLY FUCKING SHIT. It just sorta dies and leaves you in the dark with nothing to go on for troubleshooting. Windows wants to make computers into magic boxes that "just werk", but it never really gets there, and instead what you get is something that breaks just as often, but is a lot more opaque.
That BSOD with an emoticon lives rent-free in my head. Like who the fuck thought it was a good idea?
Also, even when you actually get an error message (which you probably had to dig through the awful mess that is the event viewer... Seriously, the only update they've made to it in the last twenty years was to split a bunch of things into a ton of individual logs that are more than painful to dig through), it's cryptic (if it tells you anything at all) and pasting it into search gives you nothing relevant, and quoting it gives you nothing at all (even the part that's obviously the generic part of the error), or if it does, it's a couple hits with people asking for help and either getting no replies, unhelpful replies that misunderstand the issue, or tells them they're asking in the wrong Microsoft support forum
Like... Come on, Microsoft. You clearly coded this error in the operating system. Put at least one page in documents online with at least something useful about it...
The few times I had to use the Windows Event Viewer I left having learned - Uh - Nothing except a newfound hatred for Microsoft. It's weird to navigate, and the logs are close to useless.
I don't feel very supported by their killing off CentOS and cutting promised support down from many years to the end of the year rather suddenly... Forgive me if I don't trust them with much of anything after that
I don’t feel very supported by their killing off CentOS and cutting promised support down from many years to the end of the year rather suddenly… Forgive me if I don’t trust them with much of anything after that
Fair enough. But you're speaking about policy and politics, I'm speaking about day-to-day hardware and software support/compatibility and how well it works with a wide range of hardware. I'm speaking about the OS itself; it just works with for me, without any hassles.
They literally cut promised support pulling the rug out from under many people and businesses that put their trust in that support. Not sure how that doesn't count as "day to day software support". Being able to trust that their word will be honored and I'll not be forced to scramble to replace their os is kind of important and losing that trust understandably costs that trust pretty much across the board, at least for me
If more casual PC users got on to it, i wouldn't call it a daily experience. Yeah you need to use it some times but once everyone is set, you dont really need to mess with it
I switched to Mint a few months ago and to be fair I have only messed with it a couple of times mainly just after the initial installation
It shouldn't be though. A command line interface is not user friendly for entry-level users, and until Linux UX designers realise this, Linux will never gain a greater market share. And we have seen this with Ubuntu, Mint, and other "user friendly" distros gaining popularity. I'm not saying that we should necessarily aim for broad-scale adoption of Linux as an end in itself, but more users means more support for Linux which means a better experience for all.
its only user unfriendly if youre used to having a gui for everything like windows and mac users in all reallity the real issue comes from children not being taught how to use computers growing up and instead relying on shitty non foss bloatware like windows
But that is the reality of most users today. They expect to have a GUI because it gives them the options right there, rather than having to go and learn what commands this particular system accepts. If you don't cater to those users, like my parents, my friends, my grandparents, my teachers, and basically everyone I know who isn't a computer nerd, and then expect them to "come to their senses" you will be very disappointed. Good design meets users where they're at, it doesn't expect them to "educate themselves."
right but thats not an os issue thats a societal issue you wouldnt expect someone using a car not to understand how to swap oil or replace windshield fluid right?
If Linux wants to ever have adoption outside tech people then it can't be. If a normide has to open up a terminal then that's already one less Linux user.
I have used Linux for my main PC for a very long time but I have also worked in tech support and your average user will never ever use an OS where using the terminal is mandatory.
I my opinion there should be some hobbyist distros where the terminal is your daily experience like Arch or Gentoo but the main focus should be accessibility for the average user if adoptability is a goal.
If you don't like using the Terminal use Mint, but even this one require some basics terminal skills that everybody could learn fast. Linux is made this way.
Oh, there are tons of distros where you don't need to use the terminal for anything, even Manjaro, an arch based distro, doesn't need you to ever open the terminal. I was just saying that if adoption is the goal then using the terminal can't be a requirement for a normal user experience.
What I mean is that using the terminal isn't mandatory in Manjaro while Arch and Arch based distros all require it. So for that it's an excellent example.
As for stability it's a bit more stable than Arch itself from my experience but I still has issues. The most stable distro I have used was Pop OS, I didn't have a single issue there for like 3 years straight, I only switched because of a hardware change and Pop OS's Mesa version was unstable on the new hardware.
My central point is still that you will never in a million years get the average computer user to use a terminal.
Yes, they can but an average user never will and for Linux to get any adoption beyond the enthusiast space it also can't be a requirement.
Like it's fine if you believe Linux should never get mass adoption and be a niche desktop OS. All I'm saying is that I want Linux to get mass adoption and for that terminal usage can't be a requirement because your average computer user, who's most advanced computer use is installing an ad blocker on their browser, will never open a terminal.
When I see these kind of posts I can't help but think that maybe they're being made by people who could be astroturfing for another company and it’s OS, in a negative way, to redirect the narrative.
i think it's a sort of meta ironic joke. The joke here is that it's not working, and they're trying to figure out why it's not working, because linux actually lets you do this to some significant capacity.
i think it’s a sort of meta ironic joke. The joke here is that it’s not working, and they’re trying to figure out why it’s not working, because linux actually lets you do this to some significant capacity.
Yeah, no, not sure if I can agree with that interpretation. To me it seemed more like it was showing the frustration of the user trying to use Linux that doesn't work, and having to debug the problem, adding to the frustration.
If it was expressing what you're saying it was, then there would be one more final frame to the comic showing some kind of Linux 'hero' plot device solving the problem, or pointing out there really isn't a problem.
i mean, admittedly debugging is not fun, i would know, it's literally what i do in my spare time (i've spent thousands of hours working on autistic redstone trying to make it fucking work because it looks pleasing to the eye and runs fastlier)
It's awful, the amount of swears i've said in relation to it is probably higher than politics, ironically. Granted, i still love doing this shit, it's just grueling from time to time. It's part of the lifestyle.
If it had one more frame it would no longer have a significant punchline though. That's why i think it's a meta joke. We as linux users often goad about the wonderful nature of linux, but when someone asks about it, we talk about all the shit that can break. Or it's just the fact that it's pretty easy to do things wrong sometimes.
For example, a while ago i was having an issue with video playback being incredibly sluggish. Turns out it was pipewire not running, which was weird. You would think a video would play fine without audio, and it should, but apparently that one case of not having audio output really fucked shit up.
Because Microsoft cares so much about an 18.6K-member community called “linuxmemes” on a small federated Reddit alternative known for being filled with die-hard Linux fans and furries?
Because Microsoft cares so much about an 18.6K-member community called “linuxmemes” on a small federated Reddit alternative known for being filled with die-hard Linux fans and furries?
The company a corporation would hire to do that sort of thing would use a shotgun approach to the redirection postings. With bots it would be easy for them to do.
Ah, how could I have forgotten the legion of MSFT contract employees scouring… fucking… furaffinity for that sweet, delectable anti-Linux propaganda lmao
Ah, how could I have forgotten the legion of MSFT contract employees scouring… fucking… furaffinity for that sweet, delectable anti-Linux propaganda lmao
Because having bots backed by AI and a preset list of sites/forums to post to would be way too much of an effort and impossible to automate/do, right? /s
(And for the record, mentioning 'bots' for the second time now.)
No i believe that they are actively protect and promote their systems.
But the likelihood of them coordinating a meme based offensive against the, is it 4% now? of Linux users is very small compared to the likelihood of a self aware Linux user.
I am sure that you could turn this into me being hired by Microsoft to defend their agenda but in the end, the most plaussible explanation is usually the true one
But the likelihood of them coordinating a meme based offensive against the, is it 4% now?
But we're seeing an uptick recently like we haven't seen before, as it seems like the momentum is on the Linux side right now.
Also a standard good policy is to 'kill the baby in the crib', especially so when there seems to be more dissatisfaction with Windows 11 these recent days.
A potent combination of situations.
And finally, there's nothing wrong (from a CEOs point of view) with just 'beating down' your competition every day of the week, regardless of their current market share, especially when it's easy to do so.
I am sure that you could turn this into me being hired by Microsoft to defend their agenda
Honestly? The thought has come to my mind, that you're actually an AI bot, part of the process to protect the current redirection of the narrative. Not hired by Microsoft per se, but a bot used by the company that any OS company would hire to shape the narrative.
And the fact that you brought it up first preemptively, and the way you use your verbiage, adds to the suspicion.
but in the end, the most plaussible explanation is usually the true one
You're assuming yours is the most plausible explanation.
You keep dismissing the ease of use of using AI bots in today's environment to redirect the narrative, and how often we're seeing it done across all Internet-based media today.
There's companies out there that actually sell these services to corporations, and profit from doing so. Profit is always a strong motive generator.
I won’t even try to convince you of the opposite or that i’m human. I even occasionally fail capcha tests so who knows!?
So you 'say'.
Honestly, I don't care either way if the sources are biological or electrical.
My concern is the message itself and the redirecting the narrative negatively away from good products/services, and not if it's a human or bot that's doing it.
My only point in mentioning bots is that they're very inexpensive to be used constantly (versus human beings), and are widely being used today.
I really doubt they’re wasting time astroturfing a Linux community on Lemmy.
A bots (not human) time is very easy to waste, and if your product is having problems right now, one of the first things corporations would do to protect their profits is to try to reshape the narrative away from the problems, from the negative final spotlight on your product.
And finally, as I've linked before in this conversation, Microsoft has a long history of using FUD.
You’re not going to convince hardcore devotees with a meme.
They're not directed just towards the 'hardcore the devotees', they're also directed at the person who's considering moving, who's trying to do some research about it, and does searching about it, and then finds the memes/communities.
Stopping potential switchers before they switch is a powerful thing to do to preserve your products/profits.
And if you do these memes/messages often, and if they send a certain message/narrative, you would definitely introduce FUD into the people who would consider moving to Linux.
It uninstalled a bunch of dependent packages too, including my graphics driver. I probably could have looked through the apt history and rolled them all back, but I don’t remember how to do that off the top of my head, and reinstalling took about 20 minutes.
Surely it asked you to confirm before it remove it and all that uses it. It was just doing as you told it to do and will have asked you to confirm. You can't blame it!
How many times should it ask you if your sure? If it was serious, as in, it could actually break stuff, it gets you to type "do as I say" or something.
Linux might not do everything you want it to, at least not easily, but it usually doesn't do things you didn't ask for, unlike all proprietary OSs these days.
I'm in no way a Windows fan. Use manjaro for desktop, and ubuntu for servers as of now but keep trying new distros and love changing all the time, unfortunately. However, I dread to think if I was stuck on another planet with a linux distro without internet access to troubleshoot or find out how to do random things...
And what would you do on that other planet without Internet and stuck with Microsoft Windows and no way to activate your OEM license ? At least Linux has nice manual pages to read in the main time off-line 😄
I believe you can simply leave it unregistered and it'll still work indefinitely. Plus you aren't getting updates forced down your throat, since you're not connected to the internet.
I have an unactivated windows computer I've been using for 3 years, it works fine and even gets updates it just says "activate windows" in the corner of the screen.
Just don't mess with AUR unless you have to; it's a good practice to make snapshots as well.
Endeavor is no more stable, it's very much unfiltered Arch with all its issues of "oh, you didn't read an update note? Your bad". Arch had literally broken GRUB on updates in the past.
endeavour was one of the leading grub issue reporters iirc, because they actively update grub on manual updates. Unless you hook it on your arch machine manually, or do it regularly yourself, grub doesn't update, and tbh there isn't a huge reason to do so. If it works it'll continue working.
The point is, updates break Arch (and as such Endeavour) just as they can break Manjaro; and, as a matter of fact, one of Manjaro's selling points is exactly that they allow updates to be tested before putting them into stable repository, making the system more stable.
And, as with any distro, Manjaro doesn't break if you don't change anything.
Does it make Manjaro as rock solid as Debian? Hell no. But suggesting switching to more bleeding-edge Endeavour seems like something that certainly won't help with stability.
The point is, updates break Arch (and as such Endeavour) just as they can break Manjaro; and, as a matter of fact, one of Manjaro’s selling points is exactly that they allow updates to be tested before putting them into stable repository, making the system more stable.
until you install an AUR package, and realize that having 2 week old main line repos is not going to help you at all. Or that archlinux is based on bleeding edge security, move too fast for anything to be implemented, and if something is, then it's going to be removed very quickly, that kind of stuff now requires manual intervention on manjaro.
Archlinux literally has a new board for every update cycle they roll out, anything significant that you should know about is going to be in there. Otherwise, it's probably going to be fine.
Realistically, i think things like manjaro and endeavour are going to be a worse experience than something like arch long term, but that's mostly just me not liking derivative distros. Short term, i think they're fine. I just don't understand why things like endeavour feel the need to complicate the existing repo structure.
I absolutely don't understand why Endeavour exists and is so popular.
On Manjaro side, the criticism of AUR compatibility is valid, and that's why even Manjaro devs warn against actively using it; although, I have to mention, I personally have never encountered issues related to this 2 week delay, even when at first I used and abused AUR with no respect to warnings. (then decided to be on the safe side just in case)
Also, repos include everything except edge cases, and for those, Flatpaks cover most of it. Currently, I have 2 AUR packages installed, one of them being an obscure printer driver, and other being OcenAudio, a sound recording tool I prefer.
To me, Manjaro has shown itself as a safe, predictable, noob-friendly system that doesn't lead you the ways of Arch unless you choose to go there, while benefitting from the rolling release model and wonderful optimization.
Endeavour, on the other hand...seriously, it's a little more than Arch skin. Even Garuda makes much more sense.
honestly, i think an arch distro that is basically a preconfigured version of arch built for the end user a good thing. Takes away the pain of setting it up, but keeps the benefits of running arch.
Used Manjaro in the past, probably the worst distro i've tried. Multiple screens issues, kernel issues, keyboard and mouse issues, and when i look at the forum thoses are commons on Manjaro
honestly, as a long time arch user on my desktop, who has used both manjaro and endeavour, i don't like either. Manjaro dev team isn't great, but the biggest problem is holding back packages for 2 weeks or however long it is. The biggest problem i had with endeavour was that they keyring broke (not the archlinux one) and the only way to fix it was by installing an untrusted keyring forcibly... To be fair, it was a very old distro, but these are pretty funny issues to be having considering the arch keyring updated just fine.
I love it how you just want to do something simple and very, very common and normal with a command but you don't know the magic flags to get it to do it and they're not just a logical one (like, say "-a" for all) so you do a man for it and it has something like 50 flags listed in alphabethical rather than functional order, some of which only make sense in specific combinations (which are never show together and have to be found by reading the entries for all 50 flags) and there are no examples anywhere to be found of normal usage scenarios for that command.
So that's when you use some internet search engine and it turns out the most common simplest use of it is something like "doshit --lol --nokidding --verbose=3".
but at the end it is possible to solve any and all problems linux, and troubleshooting difficult cryptic errors successfully makes you feel like a very smart god
Sometimes it takes way too long though. I had a display issue that made many of my tiny Linux boxes stop working and it took me almost a month to figure out the issue. I had to revert to an older kernal to fix them all. They just randomly stopped working one day lol. Makes me not want to accept updates so that's not great
For a given definition of 'any'. For a while, the solution to my problem would have been to contribute code to PulseAudio and/or ALSA, which was (and still is) beyond what I could reasonably do.
Me this past weekend trying to setup GPU passthrough to a VM. Bought an AMD card just to passthrough my existing Nvidia one and have had nothing but issues with multiple distros 😔
Passthrough not actually working, VM not detecting the GPU or not loading qemu properly even with everything loaded properly. Tried on 3 different distros (Ubuntu and arch based) and none worked. Might try the other suggestion to swap the cards. Just means I'll have to redo my water loop for the 2nd time this week 🙃
This is, indeed, uncommon. Typically the GPU either gets detected(abeit, often with errors), or the VM doesn't start at all. Do you use libvirt by and chance?
But are you launching VM via virsh/virt-manager or directly using qemu-system-x86_64? Could you provide the XML or the command line you're using? What does lspci -k say in regards to your GPU's?
Do you want the overview XML or for a specific category within virt-manager?
A full XML, unless you have something private in there, which you can remove. I just remember that for nvidia's there could be parts preventing load anywhere. In my case, for example, it was booting a BIOS VM instead of UEFI one.
shows both my GPUs are there now
But what's the driver used? Should be something like this (my laptop for example, without irrelevant lines)
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GA104 [Geforce RTX 3070 Ti Laptop GPU] (rev a1)
Kernel driver in use: vfio-pci
01:00.1 Audio device: NVIDIA Corporation GA104 High Definition Audio Controller (rev a1)
Kernel driver in use: vfio-pci
06:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Rembrandt (rev c7)
Kernel driver in use: amdgpu
06:00.1 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Device 1640
Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel
the BM says iommu group is not viable
Well that's something. Check the script at arch wiki on VFIO, at the paragraph "2.2 Ensuring that the groups are valid". It should print out the IOMMU groups you have in your system.
Basically, a thing with IOMMU is that you must pass all or none of the devices down to VM within each IOMMU group, even if you don't necessarily want them in your VM. In most cases, that means also passing the built-in sound card that feeds audio via HDMI outputs (the .1's in the above example). In cases where there's something else crucial in that IOMMU group, there's ACS patch but that's a hack and should only be used as a last resort.
Man I've followed like 6 different guides to a T and tried with 4 different distros and still can't get it to work. I'm done fighting with it for a while. Maybe it's just an issue with 7000 series AMD cards or the guides aren't up to date with the kernals idk. I need to take a long break from it before I get upset and just return the GPU lol
That might be a questionable choice given that this would leave the nvidia driver running on host machine and it's usually the most fucky part of this whole operation.
Good to know, I was just thinking of doing this exact thing. I haven't pulled the trigger on the AMD card though. I wanted it for wayland, but I still want to do CUDA things with my Nvidia card.
I like Linux because it let's me do whatever I want on it. Windows is so controlling. For example in Windows, there are lots of occasions where a window will pop up asking you do make a decision, and while that window is up, you cannot click on any of the other windows. Say I want to save a file, but I want to look at the document. If the save window is up, I can't review the document because it wont let me. That's so freaking annoying.
Aside from all sorts of little annoyances like that, Linux is sooooo customizable. Using KDE PLasma, I could just add widgets on my desktop that show me the status orf my computer or even let me write notes right on the desktop. To do that on Windows, I have to mess with Rainmeter for days trying to figure out the proper settings using a text protocol I am not familiar with. While Linux does run into some difficulties, they tend to be easily solvable by just running an Internet search or posting on a forum relevant to your distro/DE.
Lastly, there are lots of things that just work on Linux that don't on Windows. For instance, my network printer just works. I didn't even have to install a driver. I just added the printer and it did everything else for me. Or, I could use KDE Connect and easily transfer files from my phone to my desktop and vice verse, get phone notifications on my desktop, and even text from it without any tinkering. It just works.
The only reason I could see people using Windows aside from subjective preferences is when they're forced to because of work or they realllly want to play a one fo the few games that doesn't work on Linux. Otherwise, Linux is just objectively better as a whole.
I like Linux because it let’s me do whatever I want on it.
Windows is so controlling. For example in Windows, there are lots of occasions
where a window will pop up asking you do make a decision, and while that window
is up, you cannot click on any of the other windows. Say I want to save a file,
but I want to look at the document. If the save window is up, I can’t review
the document because it wont let me. That’s so freaking annoying.
I hear you. Another thing I like about Linux is the virtual consoles. When the GUI would show the same thing you just described, and imagine you'd have some 50 program windows open, you can just switch with control alt F1 to a virtual console, log in and shut down a certain program or do some manual page reading. And after that simply switch back to the GUI.
It's generally a lot more control-able with a terminal. I can remote into any of my machines, including IOT stuff, and have full control over any of their settings, like, say, volume or display brightness or whatever. With GUI it's like what, RDP/VNC/Teamviewer in? Gonna be painful over mobile connection.... Apps? The developer just went bankrupt and now it's dead because the cloud server is down. And I haven't even started on automation...
Also, changing multiple behaviours in one place is also nice. Say, I want to remove the volume osd and control how I want to manipulate windows. It's either an array of small disconnected utilities(in this case, HideVolumeOSD + AltDrag), or huge RAM hogger utilities like DesktopFusion, or, I can just edit it in my WM config with just a couple of lines. Things like adjusting volume based on window position (to have a background and foreground media displays) is completely out of the picture on Windows and are a breeze on Linux.
In short, lots of benefits. The downside, I guess, is a complete disarray of components. Like in case of volume again, I have pipewire daemon pretending to be pulseaudio which is middleware for alsa... and all of their corresponding utilities work but control the same thing, so it's incredibly confusing which ones to use. Also webapps for some reason can control their own volume in the system mixer(?) So there's at least 4 ways to adjust just one slider. And it can create confusion when multiple things interact with different interfaces - I'm still to figure out which fucking thing keeps setting the grp:alt_shift_toggle option in my keyboard layout.
The downside, I guess, is a complete disarray of components.
Like in case of volume again, I have pipewire daemon pretending to be pulseaudio
which is middleware for alsa…
Right. I guess this has to do with the history of audio support in Linux. From OSS to Alsa to Pulseaudio to Pipewire,
and some sort of compatibility and upgrade safety for the Linux distributions maybe.
Lately it took me a lot of time to solve some sudden audio problems with mpd server software. Then I tried Mopidy which works with GStreamer, completely different, and with different results. In the end I solved the problems with mpd, which was good because mpd can play audio from mp4 video, and I am not sure this can be done with Mopidy. Saves me a lot of video or audio formats converting.
Me last night after extolling the virtues of the OS to my wife, trying to figure out why upping my refresh rate results in completely fucked text in Linux Mint
So far I've gathered that it's probably a similar issue to what half-rate shading does on the Steam Deck, but the fix or why it's even doing it in the first place currently eludes me
E: if anyone else has a similar issue and is on an nVidia card: try the most recent driver, not the recommended one. If that doesn't work, maybe the older one then? If still not god help you cuz the first idea worked for me
There are disstros for that. And no just no. it is wrong to want to be spoonfed your computing needs, that's what apple and microsofts wants: to turn your computer into a opaque magic box that does fuck all for you but also does loads of shit for their own interests on linux you are your own apple/microsoft you own your computer and it is an openbook that you can read and edit whererver you want in it and if it breaks and you fix it you only comeout more experienced from the experience
it is wrong to want to be spoonfed your computing needs
Why though? It's not like you are building your own OS every time on assembler level, or do you?
Making software more convenient is one of the reasons for having software at all.
That doesn't mean turning it into an "opaque box" where company interests will be pushed. Having a more user experience oriented design in Linux distros can save a lot of time and frustration as well as make it more attractive to average users.
Even power users, who work with Linux professionally will benefit.
And it just might start with something as simple as proper documentation of a package.
yes that's right but that's not what I meant by "it is wrong to be want o be spoonfed". User friendliness is important and linux by large IS user friendly and well documented. There are distros like mint that go even more above and beyond in that aspect and I am greatfull for that. But to say that nothing should ever break and having one frustration and saying that linux isn't ready is simply unrealistic and lazy as hell. People who act like this overlook how frustrating MacOS and Windows are to use and this dishonesty really gets to me personally
But to say that nothing should ever break and having one frustration and saying that linux isn’t ready is simply unrealistic and lazy as hell.
It should also be considered if those who are saying that could possibly be astroturfing for another company and it's OS, in a negative way, to redirect the narrative.
There are plenty of people who would rather no computer than a computer that doesn’t magic box for them. That’s ok. What’s wrong is to make it hard to learn more and to manipulate it as you learn how
Could not be me. Not about the 🦊 part, but the failing to work part. The software fears me. The software knows it's a cog in a machine, one that's easily replacable. And I'm not one to get sentimental.
It's just the same classic bleed over of socially awkward nerds being into multiple things, like Star Trek, Star Wars, tech, programming, RPG gaming, anime, comic books, and of course, the furry fandom.
You'll find lots of Linux users among those subgroups too.
Program documentation first, Arch Wiki second, Gentoo third, surfing the web as a last resort, then ask the forum in the same order. The problem is that there is no universal way to log stuff to so I can't really point out where to look.
