Welcome to Incremental Social! Learn more about this project here!
Check out lemmyverse to find more communities to join from here!

New ASUS router firmware now requires a user to be 16y or older and will restrict features and even security upgrades if you opt out

https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/eca98b3d-41b5-497b-bafb-f8b444b8bc0f.jpeg

ASUS rolled out an update to its firmware (3.0.0.6.102_34791) that now requires users to be over the age of 16 and to send a slew of metrics and data back to ASUS. If you do not agree or do not check the box to verify you are 16y or older, you cannot use the router. At this time, I’m not sure if ASUS has meant to disable the router for anyone under 16 or if it’s a bug.

You can opt out at any time but lose access to a slew of features:

Please note that users are required to agree to share their information before using DDNS, Remote Connection
(ASUS Router APP, Lyra APP. AiCloud, AiDisk), AiProtection, Traffic analyzer, Apps analyzer, Adaptive QoS, Game Boost and Web history. At any time, users can search the contents of the terms at this page or stop sharing their information with other parties by choosing Withdraw.

Moreover, ASUS disables automatic firmware updates and worse, all security upgrades unless you opt into the data sharing. Security upgrades perform the following:

Security upgrade incorporates security measures that continuously update its security file and scans to protect against malware, malicious scripts, and emerging threats in order to secure the router and ensure system stability. Some upgrades addressing important security issues or meeting legal/regulatory requirements will still be downloaded and installed automatically, even if "Security Upgrade" is turned off.

Edit: I have personally contacted their CEO's office, but if others would like to voice their disapproval as well, here is a link: https://www.asus.com/us/support/article/787/

scottmeme ,

Is Asus just asking to have a shitload of lawsuits?

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Yes.

ultratiem OP ,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

It doesn’t seem like they give a shit. This is the company that strong armed NexusGaming with their repairs and have scammed a slew of people thru their warranty system.

If you search for “ASUS repair scam” they have a sorted history of this kind of douchery.

PseudorandomNoise ,
@PseudorandomNoise@lemmy.world avatar

Watching the GN video was insane because I had that exact same experience with ASUS 10 years ago. Back when they made the Nexus 7. I had to RMA 3 of those dam things and each time I had to go through that song and dance with the RMA forms. I think when the 4th one failed I just gave up, recycled it, and moved on from this company as a whole.

Looks like nothing's changed, which means this way of treating their customers is endemic at this point. They're a lost cause.

ultratiem OP ,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

That's brutal that they get away with that crap. I will never buy anything ASUS branded again. They are on my embargo list now, right under Sony, which I haven't purchased a single thing from them for about 18 years since they screwed me out of repairs on my phone. Only way IMO.

zod000 ,

My experience was similar, but I gave up after my first RMA because I saw everyone else going through the same thing. The N7 started as such a delight and ended up as one of worst product experiences.

Davel23 ,

I think the word you're looking for is "sordid".

ultratiem OP ,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

Sometimes I take spellcheck for granite.

voodooattack ,

It’s a slippery slope.

EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted ,
@EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Wait, that's not a typo...

ultratiem OP ,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

Neither are mine. Grammatical mistakes are not typos.

EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted ,
@EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I iz confuzzled now.

halcyoncmdr ,
@halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world avatar

And in return Gamers Nexus is teaching all of their viewers what their consumer rights are, and how to report fraudulent activity to the proper regulatory authorities. This isn't the first time Gamers Nexus has gotten regulatory agencies involved with computer part manufacturers fucking over customers, and the history of those incidents didn't go very well for other companies involved.

On the other hand Gamers Nexus has also gone out of their way to point out companies that have done the right thing when issues came up, to make sure those companies are getting kudos for NOT fucking over consumers. Because sadly that's all we really want.

If the FTC gets enough complaints to warrant the manpower to investigate ASUS warranty fraud, there is no doubt in my mind that they're gonna be fucked based on what we've seen so far.

RobotToaster ,
@RobotToaster@mander.xyz avatar

How many 14 year olds can afford a lawyer?

Gsus4 ,
@Gsus4@mander.xyz avatar

No need, they can just lie :)

ultratiem OP ,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

All you need is one lawyer in this case to handle the class action lawsuit that would follow. There is power in numbers.

halcyoncmdr ,
@halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world avatar

A class action lawsuit with a related FTC warranty fraud investigation is a pretty tough thing to fight.

rem26_art ,
@rem26_art@fedia.io avatar

The last thing I want is my router sharing information with other parties.

ultratiem OP ,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

I worry about that more than I should. But yeah, that is the central hub that everything goes thru. I actually don't even want it to ping Asus's update servers because I can't be sure what kind of data is being sent.

I moved to Merlin firmware and hoping that doesn't have any telemetry. Unfortunately OpenWRT doesn't support wifi 6/6E routers and even the rare ones it does support, aren't really the greatest.

I want the asus hardware, just not their shitty software.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,

What kind of bandwidth needs do you even have, that WiFi5 is insufficient for, but WiFi6 is?

ultratiem OP ,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

Yes it’s my fault for needing wifi 6 🤪

Murdoc ,

But yeah, that is the central hub that everything goes thru

Does vpn help with this?

ultratiem OP ,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

No.

kilgore_trout ,
@kilgore_trout@feddit.it avatar

The list of supported WiFi 6-capable routers has a good number of entries.

DmMacniel ,

Because they aren't legally allowed to spy on minors they add this shit to bypass it?

ultratiem OP ,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

Precisely

fluckx ,

Is the train of thought that if the adult approves they can harvest data from minors regardless? It harvests data from anybody using the internet, not just person handling the settings. It doesn't seem legal that the data harvest agreement binds all users in a household rather than the one managing the settings?

Is that legal in Europe?
is it legal to suddenly semi brick a device if you dont allow them to data harvest? Is it really considered giving consent freely when the device you paid $$ for suddenly no longer does 90% because you disagree with sudden data harvest practices?

I can understand a feature not working because you disagree on sharing something. E.g: can't tell you which pizza place is near you if you dont share your location.

But this? I hope it's illegal and they get sued into oblivion for this. This is super invasive.

ultratiem OP ,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

I think it’s literally just legalize to appease law makers with regards to collecting info from a minor. That’s typically a no-no in NA. If you lie and click the box but you’re 15, that’s on you. There isn’t any legal recourse if someone just lies. I’m totally ok not needing to send anyone “proof” of my age for anything on the net (this, porn, NSFW, etc,).

fluckx ,

But that's the point. You, the 15 year old, never click or see the box. Your data is harvested because somebody somewhere else agreed to it.

It's like giving any website the right to farm your data because somebody else on the same shared IP clicked accept all.

I'm also totally okay not having to send any identity data over the net. I fully agree there. It's just their standpoint of "let an admin click it and we can farm everybody's data behind that device" seems like a very unstable legal standpoint.

Then again. I'm not a lawyer and the law doesn't work based on how lawful i feel something is or should be.

ZeDoTelhado ,

Fantastic. Time to deliver opnsense and/or pfsense to the masses. Or better, recycle a router with openwrt or similar

sic_semper_tyrannis ,

This is sickening.

People should use alternative routers and software such as OpenWRT, DDWRT, and Gl.iNet routers

ultratiem OP ,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

Yeah. When I bought my ASUS router I was looking into OpenWRT supported routers but they are really hard to come by (at least in NA) and quite dated. Router manufacturers really don't want to have their telemetry removed.

space ,

One of those tiny low power PCs with OpenSense is a good alternative, but a bit more work. The only downside is that you need a separate switch and wifi access point.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

I’m not sure if ASUS has meant to disable the router for anyone under 16 or if it’s a bug.

Pretty sure they just expect everyone to click "Agree" regardless of age.

ultratiem OP ,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

Probably. But still so shady to give the choice when it doesn't actually work. Feels worse this way TBH.

electricprism ,

Okay ASUS is out. Recommendations?

Link ,

PC with opnsense.

ultratiem OP ,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

Man, idk. I installed WRT Merlin in hopes this doesn't make it there. OpenWRT is really hard to get onto routers. Even the ones that support it (which tend to be pretty dated) have a ton of hurdles or restrictions as manufacturers really don't want to lose the telemetry.

Asus makes great hardware unfortunately. Some of the fastest and most performant routers out there. Moreover, they don't rely on subscriptions to gate some of the features like pretty much every one else.

I tried TP Link and Netgear (if their "legendary" Nighthawk) and the Asus just blew them away on every level. Especially stability and reliability.

BaumGeist ,

OpenWRT is really hard to get onto routers

I bought the Nanopi R4S, and it was extremely easy to switch out their modified OpenWRT for vanilla (literally just use a command/program to install the image on an SDcard). Granted, I did have to find a solution for wifi, but even that was easy with the Belkin RT3200s and the instructions (more in-depth, but still hand-holding). I also flashed it onto a Netgear AC1200 using nmrpflash, which sounds imposing, but really just entailed installing the pre-reqs, hooking the router's ethernet port directly to my PC's and running the command.

I did have to do my research to arrive at my decision to buy these specific models for their compatibility with OpenWRT. If you don't, you might end up with something that requires popping open the shell and setting up serial comms, which is a pain.

As far as I could find, out of the three Wifi6 enabled Asus models (RT-AX###) that are compatible with OpenWRT, 2 require ssh and running commands that are given in the guide; the other one, and all of the supported AC### models, seemed to work using ASUS's built-in web-app to upload the OWRT image. I wouldn't say any of it is easy, but I also can't agree with "really hard."

Another consideration is setup and maintenance. Proprietary firmware tends toward being as "click here to set and forget everything, here are the only 3 pieces of info you need to know from now on"; OpenWRT is definitely more hands on and requires a lot of RTFMing and routine maintenance.

You999 ,

There's a few routes (pun intended) you could go.

DIY with opnsense on an old PC will give you the most flexibility and will allow you to build your router to your exact needs.

Ubiquiti is also another choice albeit a contentious one. Their hardware is pretty good which also doesn't require a recurring charge to use (unfortunately rare when you get into the enterprise grade gear). The software side is where people have such mixed feelings as for consumers and prosumers it's pretty good but when you start getting into enterprise level configurations you'll find their software pretty lacking. For example if you need a L3 switch for inter VLAN routing you'll want to go with a different vendor as ubiquiti's L3 is practically broken.

bobs_monkey ,

And Ubiquiti's support is non-existent. Don't get me wrong, I like their hardware, and their software works just fine for my needs, especially at their price point. But if you have issues, you're searching forums or are SOL.

Ruckus gear is pretty good too, though I don't have much hands-on experience with it. And it's expensive. Like really expensive.

You999 ,

I've actually never had any problems with their support the two times I had to RMA some dead products but maybe I've been lucky.

bobs_monkey ,

They'll RMA just fine, but I was speaking more to software support.

Damage ,

I went with Mikrotik and it's great, but honestly I cannot endorse them as consumer routers, they are very hard to set up

You999 ,

I love mikrotik especially their switches as they are the only vendor making relatively affordable 100 gigabit gear. I completely agree their software isn't user friendly which I why I didn't endorse them. Plus I don't really have experience with their wireless access points nor have I seen any in the wild.

Damage ,

I have a 5-years-old wAP, and it... Works. Not super fast TBH, and I had to tweak it a bit to get it there, 'cause the default settings were slow. At this point I don't remember what I did tho.

Aceticon ,

You can also get a Celeron-based (for example with a N100) fanless mini-pc meant for use as DIY routers like these and install something like pfSense on it.

Personally my really old router still does what I need so I'm leaving it be, though I've replaced my media box and my NAS with a similar device running Lubuntu but can't really make it also be the router since it only has 1 ethernet port.

athairmor ,

Synology seems ok to me.

LaggyKar ,
@LaggyKar@programming.dev avatar

Something with OpenWRT. Turris Omnia is pretty good.

fluckx ,

I guess I'm not updating my routers anymore then.
Sucks though. It seemed to be the only Asus product that wasn't garbage.

ultratiem OP ,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

That sucks too because you miss out security fixes. I would rather run a secure and up to date firmware that leaks data to ASUS than one with known security exploits. If those were my only options.

fluckx ,

I'd rather update it as well. But the routers are behind my ISP router and aren't externally accessible. The attack surface is smaller in that regard. I'm not happy with the thought of an unpatched router. Maybe I can hold out long enough for merlin to support my routers.

I dont think the latest few updates I did mentioned any security updates. Only bugfixes.

I'll tackle the problem when it presents itself I guess.

Lemmchen ,

I'm sure asuswrt-merlin won't have this nonsense.

fluckx ,

Routers aren't supported by merlin unfortunately :(

Lemmchen ,

Do you mean modems?

fluckx ,

I mean my Asus router models aren't supported by merlin. Only 1 of them functions as an actual router.

possiblylinux127 ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

Look into OpenWRT. It is more complex to setup but it is a Swiss army knife.

PM_Your_Nudes_Please ,

Sadly, many ASUS routers use Broadcom chipsets, which has major compatibility issues with openwrt. Notably, Broadcom has refused to allow open source drivers, and OpenWRT only uses open source. So installing any kind of OpenWRT on a Broadcom router will effectively cripple it, because even basic functions like WiFi will be unavailable due to the lack of drivers.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,

This is why I never used to recommend Merlin WRT.

The ones you should look into are OpenWRT (my favourite), DD-WRT, tools like OPNSense or the more sophisticated Ubiquiti.

Xanis ,

Give it a minute: Tech Jesus and his Nexus friends are having a great time with ASUS recently. I'm sincerely looking forward to how far they take things.

EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted ,
@EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Who is this "Tech Jesus"?

Kazumara ,

Stephen Burke, Editor-in-Chief and founder of Gamers Nexus. They do computer hardware reviews, consumer advocacy and sometimes even investigative journalism. Steve has a majestic mane, earning him that nickname.

See https://gamersnexus.net/ and https://www.youtube.com/@GamersNexus

EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted ,
@EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Ah, fair enough.

possiblylinux127 ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

1000002474

Hello there

EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted ,
@EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Lol.

DevCat ,
@DevCat@lemmy.world avatar

If I bought one of their routers and this came up, I would simply be returning it and giving the person at the counter a printout as to why. Sorry, but this router is not "suitable for purpose". Look up that phrase and "merchantability".

makingStuffForFun ,
@makingStuffForFun@lemmy.ml avatar

Agree. Straight back for refund. In Australia we can legally choose the manufacturer, or the retailer. I'd go straight to Asus, to give them the message directly.

Fubarberry ,
@Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz avatar

Trying to refund through Asus will result in them dragging their feet, being as unhelpful as possible, or claiming you damaged the product.

Taleya ,

Which will result in federal agencies going straight up their arse.

Many countries outside the US have actual consumer protections

Fubarberry ,
@Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz avatar

I would hope so, but Asus has been doing things like this for at least 10+ years which makes me doubtful that anything will change soon.

makingStuffForFun ,
@makingStuffForFun@lemmy.ml avatar

I've been down that road with Samsung. One mention of our consumer laws, with a link to the contact form where I can report them, and refund issued immediately. Australia has good laws. People just need to flex em.

ultratiem OP ,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

I would rather not have less options in this world and force companies not to be dicks. I guess to each their own. My router is also 2y old so no returns available.

DevCat ,
@DevCat@lemmy.world avatar

For the downvoters, in the US:

https://www.findlaw.com/consumer/consumer-transactions/what-is-the-warranty-of-merchantability.html

The implied warranty of merchantability guarantees that a product sold to you will work for its intended purposes. In other words, it means you can expect a toaster to toast your bread. If it doesn't, you have legal protection against losing money on a product that doesn't work.

If you bought the router expecting it to work as advertised, you may make a claim if it doesn't. They would have to spell out ahead of time what the limitations and requirements are in order to avoid trouble.

ultratiem OP ,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

You have no claim. The update does not disable the router and even if you opt out, the router itself still functions, except with a few additional features missing. Telemetry and data collection does not void a warranty. There is no claim here.

WolfLink ,

Protecting your network from internet-bound threats is one of the most important jobs of a router, and that involves receiving security updates. Once your router no longer receives security updates, you should stop using it.

DevCat ,
@DevCat@lemmy.world avatar

That would be for the legal system to decide. If you purchased it for a specific advertised feature, and that feature was disabled unless unspoken terms were agreed to, you would have a case.

PM_Your_Nudes_Please ,

That depends on how the product is marketed. If the product has any of those disabled features on the box and doesn’t outright say you need to send them telemetry data to use it, then you could argue that you bought it for that feature and can’t use it.

For instance, maybe I want to use the VPN feature, so I bought a router that supports that. And now I’m locked out of that feature unless I agree to a miles long privacy policy and sharing my telemetry data.

Plus, the lack of security updates is, at best, extremely concerning. The firewall’s primary function is to act as a first line of defense against attacks coming in via WAN. They have locked those security updates behind the telemetry sharing, and therefore it can’t even be used as a proper firewall.

Scolding0513 ,

never use stock router firmware

amir_s89 ,

Any other open source alternative you recommend?

0x2d ,

openwrt

matron1049 ,

Usually it's OpenWRT

ayaya ,
@ayaya@lemdro.id avatar

There is also FreshTomato if your router has Broadcom wifi chipset like mine does.

possiblylinux127 ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

Broadcom sucks I would avoid it at all costs.

Scolding0513 ,

openwrt or ddwrt

kilgore_trout ,
@kilgore_trout@feddit.it avatar

On ASUS routers, the best choices are OpenWRT or Asuswrt-Merlin.

ladfrombrad ,
@ladfrombrad@lemdro.id avatar

You know, I'd 99% of the time agree with you but has anyone else tried out the little (travel?) routers from GL-iNet?

https://lemdro.id/pictrs/image/4ea49495-52da-436c-b75d-fefeab6b2e04.jpeg

Their default router interface ain't half bad at all, and if you do need to use Luci you can simply do that too

https://lemdro.id/pictrs/image/9be3b24b-2e71-402a-b0db-3d1f23fb6a05.jpeg

I bought a couple of them for a family member and they haven't poked me once for help with them.

Scolding0513 ,

i dont blame you. GL-inet routers have always seemed so cool to me. always wanted to get one.

paired with the blue merle firmware it would be a godlike setup

https://github.com/srlabs/blue-merle

but i think blue merle is not being maintained anymore.. is there any other firmware with similar functionality? like imei rotation, mac randomizer, etc? that you know of, even for similar hardware

ladfrombrad ,
@ladfrombrad@lemdro.id avatar

Fraid not.

I recall worrying about MAC address tracking one time and using Chainfire's MAC privacy app, but that's a non factor now since they're randomised by default on Android on the most recent versions.

Scolding0513 ,

imei rotation would be the best feature

zaph ,
@zaph@sh.itjust.works avatar

I mean if you're using their servers for all of that cloud management can you really expect them not to take a look? You can buy a router and install open source firmware that doesn't scrub your data or keep giving money to giant corporations that put profits over customers.

Lemmchen ,

The title could use the word "router" somewhere.

trainden ,

New ASUS firmware now requires a user to be 16y or older router and will restrict features and even security upgrades if you opt out

Like that?

Reddfugee42 ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/11cf6cda-154a-4d32-9fea-91e4574db91b.gif

ultratiem OP ,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

Wow thanks I never could have figured that one out myself!

XTL ,

New ASUS firmware now requires a user to be 16y or older router and will restrict features and even security upgrades if you router out

Missed a spot.

mudle ,
@mudle@lemmy.ml avatar

Fr. Had me thinking ASUS Motherboards. Really had me going there😅

ultratiem OP ,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

They are next 🫠

ultratiem OP ,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

Done 🙏

lemmyarcade ,

I remember seeing that Openwrt is working on getting their own hardware sometime in the future. Might be worth looking at when the time comes. I'll stick with merlin until that goes the same way.

ky56 ,

Isn't the Banana Pi R64/R3/R4 close enough to that?

possiblylinux127 , (edited )
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

I like Linksys for OpenWRT. They are cheaper and the chipset is often the same. They aren't high performance devices by any stretch but they are pretty solid in my experience.

I do wish OpenWRT would partner with a existing company instead of trying to go alone. There are several companies that make hardware specifically for OpenWRT. It would be nice if they would just work to have a "certified by OpenWRT" badge. They could then donate a percentage of the sale to the project.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • random
  • privacy@lemmy.ml
  • incremental_games
  • meta
  • All magazines
    •