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US sues Apple for illegal monopoly over smartphones

The US Department of Justice and 16 state and district attorneys general accused Apple of operating an illegal monopoly in the smartphone market in a new antitrust lawsuit. The DOJ and states are accusing Apple of driving up prices for consumers and developers at the expense of making users more reliant on its iPhones.

Muzle84 ,
@Muzle84@lemmy.world avatar

Apple did some sort of "tech innovations" through years, but its economical success has always been based on its locked down ecosystem.

Apple's marketing about its customers being part of an elite, hence zero compatibility with the 'mass', is disgusting imho.

Glad to hear it could be over, especially if it comes from US lawmakers.

Dasus ,

EU has been trying to regulate them for years.

Were perhaps finally getting somewhere with this. I'm still afraid it's too slow though.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-66708571

iPhone, new charger: Apple bends to EU rules

irotsoma ,
@irotsoma@lemmy.world avatar

I think they were fine before, because they were offering the best experience for the people who want someone else to configure things for them and make decisions on privacy, security, etc., for them. Problem now is that they no longer offer much in the way of brand new user experiences that no one else offers, and additionally they don't prioritize the user's privacy and convenience and prioritize how much money they can make with the centralized user information they control and don't allow the user to make decisions on their own privacy and security.

turkishdelight ,

If you enjoy a good laugh, then head over to hackernews to see the meltdown apple bros are having: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39778999

pewgar_seemsimandroid ,

heard this on radio first

uis ,
@uis@lemm.ee avatar

Did EU bite US?

Noodle07 ,

We're contagious, and we're not sorry

0Xero0 ,
@0Xero0@lemmy.world avatar

Good, don't sorry, bite more.

rmuk ,

Kinky! Are you on Recon?

Korne127 ,
@Korne127@lemmy.world avatar

👀

atrielienz ,

Can you be more contagious? Virulently so? Pandemic level? I need some of that good EU user privacy law plague in my life.

Noodle07 ,

Uuuh careful what you wish for, that's how you get a Napoléon

DragonTypeWyvern ,

As long as he destroys the HRE

Noodle07 ,

We'll stamp Europe with spqr With French empire

Zacryon , (edited )

What? Unbelievable. I'm shocked. Shocked, I say. This really comes as a surprise. I would've never expected this. No one would have seen this coming. This is really outrageous. They are innocent. I can't comprehend this. No way! It's not acceptable! /i

– Apple Fan, probably (without the irony flag then)

cmbabul ,

I mean I’m an Apple user, although not exclusively, and I am very surprised, not because Apple doesn’t deserve it, they absolutely need to be reigned in like all big tech companies. I’m surprised as hell that the US government in 2024 is attempting to crack down an extremely profitable business. You love to see it

HawlSera ,

Kick their asses DOJ!

UristMcHolland ,

I don't hate Apple but I do hate their influence. They release some wireless earbuds and then suddenly all the manufacturers "don't have enough room for a headphone jack", ...get the fuck out of here.

lemmesay ,
@lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

i'm still angry about their initiatives on delicate phone bodies and non-removable batteries.

ICastFist ,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

And "no physical keyboards"

r_se_random ,

Ehh, that's ok. Slide out keyboards aside, having an on-display keyboard is a better idea by and large.

rottingleaf ,

For whom?

my_hat_stinks ,

A keyboard without tactile feedback is objectively worse than a keyboard with tactile feedback, excluding other factors.

I've never had a physical keyboard lag out then send an entirely different keystroke because it thought I held a button, or send a single keystroke because I was typing too quickly.

I've never had to wait a moment for a physical keyboard to show up after selecting a text box.

I've never had the entire layout of a page shift to make room for a physical keyboard whenever I select or deselect a text box.

I've never had a physical keyboard prevent me from using the number pad and force me to use the full keyboard (or worse, vice versa) because of an improperly configured input box.

The way I see it there are exactly two real benefits to integrating a software keyboard into a touchscreen: reduced physical complexity (the entire device is essentially just one screen), and easier access to emoji. A touchscreen keyboard performs far worse as a keyboard. It's a valid trade-off for a small mobile device, but it's not objectively better.

r_se_random ,

A keyboard is not just to enter text It can do a multitude of things like emojis. Good luck remembering all the mappings on a physical one, or you end up with having them eat screen space. Might not be your use case, but a vast majority of the world uses it.

Additionally, this increases the overall screen real estate. Aside for sliding keyboards (which I did add a caveat for in my original comment), a physical keyboard would be in the way for most of the usage an average person makes on the phone, like watching videos, looking at pictures.

A physical keyboard would probably weight more as well (this is just a guess, based on the idea the membrane, and additional circuitry required for a keyboard would be more than the weight of a glass panel).

A physical keyboard adds an additional point of failure on your device as well.

I'm not saying virtual keyboards are perfect. Like any other thing, there are trade offs to make. But in the form factor phones work in, a virtual keyboard makes more sense according to me. The best of both worlds would probably be a sliding keyboard, but that does add more weight to the device.

Balthazar ,
@Balthazar@sopuli.xyz avatar

To add, I personally have had all of the complaints of digital keyboards happen to physical ones. Just not the removal of the numpad. The others, wordt of which is lag, Ive had plenty.
Input lag IS THE WORST.

namingthingsiseasy ,

There's room for both in my opinion. Keyboards are good for accuracy. Touchscreens are good for custom inputs and slightly faster to type on. In an ideal world, we'd have both.

To be frank, I find touchscreens so abhorrently useless that I just use my phone less than I'd like to - for example, I'm much more likely to just flat out ignore messages because of how tedious input is on phones. I don't know if a keyboard would make a huge difference for me since I think mobile devices are garbage in more ways than one, but the lack of a keyboard is by far the biggest issue.

rottingleaf ,

Might not be your use case, but a vast majority of the world uses it.

The breakthrough in ergonomics caused by mass production of stuff for people of different metrics and problems and everything during WWII was entirely about this sentence being wrong.

A good interface is not for "the majority" or for "the average user", it's customizable for all the extremes, so for every user with just a bit of initial effort.

rottingleaf ,

A physical keyboard adds an additional point of failure on your device as well.

A hercon keyboard, like in old military stuff, will last far longer than any touchscreen. Its feedback is weaker than for most keyboards, but still better than any touchscreen.

If we are choosing between a touchscreen alone and a touchscreen plus keyboard, then yeah, only this isn't a fair comparison.

A fair one would be keyboard vs touchscreen.

brbposting ,

I've never had a physical keyboard prevent me from using the number pad and force me to use the full keyboard (or worse, vice versa) because of an improperly configured input box.

It’s all I can do not to contact the web admin when this happens! Two days ago I used a form where the first box was set correctly and the second wasn’t. (Also how about when a site tells your password manager to input the p/w in the email field, uhg.)

I've never had the entire layout of a page shift to make room for a physical keyboard whenever I select or deselect a text box.

Pretty rare, no?

I've never had a physical keyboard lag out then send an entirely different keystroke because it thought I held a button, or send a single keystroke because I was typing too quickly.

Might’ve seen that twice in the past year.

I've never had to wait a moment for a physical keyboard to show up after selecting a text box.

Interesting, just checked and I suppose I kind of wait a millisecond but it’s essentially imperceptible. (Have a pretty new flagship phone.)

Gotta check reviews on the Clicks now that I think it’s been out a couple months:

https://files.catbox.moe/93ibqg.webp

daltotron ,

Yeah, but I like physical keyboards because they're cool, and non-physical keyboards are lame. They reduce my hardware experience to a joyless, abstracted, sterile experience, where I don't have the ability to click any buttons, turn any knobs, flip any hinges. Then, on top of that, the software experience also ends up being standardized and sterile.

It is more practically efficient, sure. But I like the inefficiency. It's like driving a stick-shift, it's less convenient, but the tactility and inconvenience, the physicality, makes the object more real, less confined to cyberspace. I am forced to become a more conscious driver, I can't drink a drink while I drive, or drive one-handed. Old phones are like portable games consoles. New phones are magic mirrors that steal your soul.

There's also probably something to be said that there's a sort of two-way causal relationship, where the phones becoming more practical devices enables more reliance upon them, and phones becoming more practical devices is driven by a need from private interests to make these devices more reliable and frictionless. More joyless. Cars used to be a simple toy and a fool's replacement for the horse and buggy. In many ways, I would've much preferred if they had remained confined to that use case, rather than evolving to take over american civic infrastructure and life.

It's sort of like, dwarf fortress has an appeal, not just in playing the "game", right, not just in doing the things in the game, but also in memorizing the layouts and how to interface with the horrible UI, where it makes you feel smart for understanding how to parse it, even if in reality it's a fairly useless skill, and it's not actually that complicated.

Metacortechs ,

Are you ok?

daltotron ,

no, why do you ask?

Morefan ,

Not all phones have gone to the dark side - https://www.fxtec.com

exothermic ,

What’s a headphone jack?

lemmesay ,
@lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

the 3.5mm rounded hole where you can insert your wired earphones, wired headphones, or stereo speakers

Raiderkev ,

What's a computer?

rikonium ,

An iPad Pro, specifically

exothermic ,

Oh, that thing is garbage. I prefer the 6.35mm RGA jacks for superior hi fidelity quality. It’s a shame they don’t make phones with those.

trolololol ,

Hey guys look, I found a troll! Please don't feed them.

exothermic ,

How dare. 6.35mm is superior and I for one want it on my phone. The larger jack size provides a greater surface area for conductance. Why is this important? Glad you asked, more surface area translates to less resistance at the junction, thus allowing more electrons to flow freely from your device to your ocular cavity, where sound is processed from compression waves into electromagnetic waves. The 6.35mm jack is the best option for hi-fi 256 bit color. As you can see, it’s all basic science. Source: I’m a stientist

PlainSimpleGarak ,

But that's not illegal. Apple can't force competitors to be influenced by them. If Samsung, Google and the like choose to be sheep, that's on them. I don't use Apple products. They're not impacting my life.

kaffiene ,

It's probably safe to assume that's not the basis for the monopoly claim

PlainSimpleGarak ,

I should hope not. They have about 61% market share in the US. A large chunk to be sure, but hardly a monopoly. With plenty of Android OS manufacturers, there are plenty to choose from.

ICastFist ,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

According to the article, the main points are:

Disrupting “super apps” that encompass many different programs and could degrade “iOS stickiness” by making it easier for iPhone users to switch to competing devices

Blocking cloud-streaming apps for things like video games that would lower the need for more expensive hardware

Suppressing the quality of messaging between the iPhone and competing platforms like Android

Limiting the functionality of third-party smartwatches with its iPhones and making it harder for Apple Watch users to switch from the iPhone due to compatibility issues

Blocking third-party developers from creating competing digital wallets with tap-to-pay functionality for the iPhone

The enforcers are asking the court to stop Apple from “using its control of app distribution to undermine cross-platform technologies such as super apps and cloud streaming apps,”

I'm somewhat conflicted. As much as I despise Apple, they have complete rights on their operating systems and thus can tell what they want or don't want there, kinda like how videogame consoles work. Far from ideal for both consumers and developers, obviously, especially with how Apple hates both.

As a court case, this sounds dumb and likely to go nowhere. If it was a law proposal that would force them and any future wannabes to open up like PCs, however, I'd be fully behind it.

PlainSimpleGarak ,

Agreed. I have no love for the company, but this is government overreach. If Apple users/developers have a problem with any of these items, they have the option to choose another platform.

Now, if Apple was literally the only game in town, I would probably feel differently.

Lucidlethargy ,
@Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works avatar

I seldom argue against capitalism, but this is a good example of runaway capitalism. Apple has been causing a lot of problems and grief. If this isn't the solution, what is? People are too stupid en mass to make the change we need here.

ICastFist ,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

As I said in my comment, a better solution would be a law instead of a court case. Even if it sets a precedent, it still leaves all the legal wiggle room needed for Apple, or anyone else, to fuck around in a different manner and get back in the same spot again.

kaffiene ,

Did you read the article? Their concerns are a number of anticompetiive behaviours from Apple,. Not the lack of competition. But that said, "Android" is not a competitor, Android is an OS. Samsung is a competitor and they're nowhere near Apples size in the US

PlainSimpleGarak ,

The Android OS is a competitor to iOS. Yes, Android is produced by several different manufacturers.

kaffiene ,

It's not a competitor in the sense of a being a company that can monopolise, which is the context of the discsussion

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

If you own a phone, Apple impacts your life. Don't be naive.

PlainSimpleGarak ,

That's silly. I own a Samsung phone. Checking email and the weather on it hardly "impacts" my life. Furthermore, you have the option to move to another platform if it bothers you that much. If people don't leave, that indicates their users are willing to tolerate these issues.

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

Apple impacts your life, if indirectly, by shaping the market that they control over 50% of. I haven't owned an Apple product since my 4th gen click wheel iPod, and I'd be a fool to suggest that their decisions don't have an influence on my life.

PlainSimpleGarak ,

Influence and impact are not interchangeable. I would agree they have some influence (indirect) as they affect their competitors and I purchase products from their competitors. They don't impact (direct) me as I do not use any of their services or products. Apple and I do not have a direct relationship.

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

Lol ok semantics.

"Impact" doesn't mean "direct" necessarily, that's why the word is often used with the word "direct" or "indirect" as a modifier.

SulaymanF ,

That’s not Apple, that’s the free market. Samsung touted wired headphones and a headphone jack and the market still showed they wanted wireless.

Raiderkev ,

But we had wireless headphones already. The choice to have both was nice. Not being able to charge and use headphones sucks. Also tiny e waste pods with tiny non recyclable batteries are terrible for the environment compared to a wired pair when thrown in a landfill.

HawlSera ,

No it's definitely Apple.

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

and the market still showed they wanted wireless

Or maybe people just need phones and there are only like 3 actual options.

SulaymanF ,

That’s simply not true. Have you been in a mobile phone store recently? There’s far more than 3 brands of phone let alone 3 models per brand.

rottingleaf ,

Their propaganda you mean.

iopq ,

Actually it coincided with IPX rating for smartphones. The last headphone jack smartphones did not have water resistance, but the newer models did. People voted for a more sealed phone with their wallets.

These days you can get both, but my phone has a 3.5mm jack and NO ipx rating that I could find

gian ,

Actually it coincided with IPX rating for smartphones. The last headphone jack smartphones did not have water resistance, but the newer models did. People voted for a more sealed phone with their wallets.

My rugged phone is IP68 but it has Usb C connector and SIM/SD tray, so adding a headphone jack while having an IPX rating seems not impossible.

iopq ,

It's not impossible, they just didn't do it back then so we ended up in the situation we are in now. By the way, the DAC in my phone is low quality, so I hear popping and distortion when I play

http://plasticity.szynalski.com/

at the same time, my phone doesn't do output to a DAC through USB because it already has a 3.5mm port, so I can't use something higher quality

uis ,
@uis@lemm.ee avatar

I don't think DAC is reason behind popping and distortion. Probably shit power circuit or amplifier.

iopq ,

It's both, because I hear little bells in the background even at low volume. An IEM is very sensitive so needs very little power, the amplifier will perform worse as it needs to output more power.

In fact when I use over ears, it sounds better because I increase the device volume which increases the input voltage

Anyway, the $9 Apple dongle blows my phone's 3.5mm jack out of the water. My tablet and desktop have the same issue, but when I connect the same devices to my ancient laptop they sound perfect.

The point is the 3.5mm jack actually gets me worse sound quality because my phone doesn't output audio to usb, so I only use it with my TWS. Which, by the way, also sound like crap in the same game, but it might just be Bluetooth issues

SpiderShoeCult ,

My phone has IP68 with an usb-c and headphone jack, and the SIM/SD tray. Not a rugged phone though.

prole , (edited )
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

People voted for a more sealed phone with their wallets.

LOL imagine if capitalism actually worked this way...

Edit: People seem to be missing the point. I am aware that phones with 3.5mm jacks exist. I also just understand that capitalism and "free markets" don't actually work the way people seem to think they do. Maybe if the headphone jack was the most important feature to people, it would do better. Or maybe if it was an mp3 player and not a phone. Or maybe, simply, if it was manufactured by a brand people have heard of. Sometimes it's literally that simple.

But that isn't the case, is it?

iopq ,

There are still phones with 3.5mm jacks and they are not the best selling models

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

Maybe people aren't spending $500-$1200 on a device just because it has a headphone jack. Like that's anyone's top concern.

iopq ,

Zen phone 10 has everything you need and a 3.5mm jack

Why isn't it outselling the rest of them?

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

Are you asking me to explain microeconomics to you? Ask 100 people in the US if they've ever heard of Zen Phone, and 99 will tell you no.

And, again, that's nobody's top concern. Maybe if it was an mp3 player, rather than a phone, whether or not it has a headphone jack would be higher up on the priority list.

iopq ,

If it was that important, people would have heard about it

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

Exactly my point

iopq ,

So 3.5mm is actually a complaint from a loud minority

It never became a major selling point for the phones that still have it

guacupado ,

There are literally phones still around with 3.5 jacks. You just don't want one.

Alpha71 ,

Then why can they waterproof the usb plug-in but not the headphone jack?

WhataburgerSr ,

Vote with your wallet.

I'm one of the few people that use my headphone jack with Grado headphones and have had Motorola phones so I can listen to music the way I want.

Don't even get me started on the light green bubble shit.

Fuck Apple.

guacupado ,

But how is that Apple's fault? Weird argument.

sjmarf , (edited )
@sjmarf@sh.itjust.works avatar

OC isn't claiming that the shift in the industry is solely Apple's fault:

I don’t hate Apple but I do hate their influence

The reality is that what OC said is exactly what happened. Apple removed the headphone jack to coerce people into buying AirPods. Everyone else released their own wireless earbuds to compete, and also removes their headphone jacks for the same reason.

Ultraviolet ,

Deliberately degrading picture quality when the metadata says it's from a competitor to push the narrative that they have the best cameras is also pretty low. Points for the sheer audacity, though.

pycorax ,

Wait is there actually proof of this? That's pretty damning.

olympicyes ,

The proof is the status quo. Video texts from Android users look bad on an iPhone. Apple could choose to fall back to RCS instead of SMS from iMessage. RCS would offer better video quality than SMS, which overall improves the interoperability of all phones. Because RCS is a standard and the natural successor to SMS, refusing to support the standard makes it less likely to succeed, with the intent of defending their dominant market share.

pycorax ,

While I agree with you, this isn't as outright as I though it would be though. Apple fan boys could very easily just handwave this away. Frankly I don't live in the US so no one here uses iMessage anyways so I don't really have any examples I have seen or could use to show people.

AA5B , (edited )

While I prefer remaining in the Walled Garden because Apple makes it a veritable Eden compared to so many customer-hostile apps, I can see this. I still think the Walled Garden is better for customers (assuming you can also choose a different ecosystem) and it’s ok for one of many competitors, the rules have to change once you dominate the market. se la vie.

“using private APIs to undermine crossplatform technologies like messaging, smartwatches, and digital wallets,”

  • I don’t understand and why all the chat apps don’t disqualify messaging as a concern
  • what’s the deal with watches? You can use an Apple Watch without an Apple device. Granted I never looked into other smart watches on an iPhone, so I do t know: what’s the limitation?
  • sorry, but confidential stuff like wallets and health records should remain controlled. …. Even if Walmart is funding this

I want to be able to choose a walled garden for my phone, just like I want to choose for game compatibility on my laptop, and ultimate freedom on my servers. Those are the right tools for my needs

necromancyr ,

You can only use an Apple Watch with an iPhone. While you CAN use one without a phone, you need an iPhone to configure it the first time (or if you need to reset).

Thry are very locked in.

AtmaJnana ,

I once got an Apple Watch as a bonus at work. Had to sell it to a buddy because I couldn't use it without an iPhone. So dumb.

revisable677 ,

I'm always impressed how far corporations managed to convince people to be loyal to them. Not saying it's a person's fault, I used to fall pretty badly for corporate bullshit myself.

The whole "walled garden" concept is inherently anti-consumer. Have you ever asked yourself why there hasn't been any real innovation in the phone/smartwatch fields for years now. Or why phones aren't cheap to fix anymore. Or why battery life gets so bad after two or so years that most people are forced to buy a new one.

Things don't have to be this way. We can have well designed products that work together without all the lock in.

AA5B ,

I completely disagree. As long as there are valid choices, an option to choose a walled garden has benefits. It’s only a problem when that’s your only realistic choice. In this case, as long as Android is common enough to be a valid choice and there are multiple Android manufacturers, then you really don’t see any of these problems.

If you don’t think there’s any innovation in phones, either

  • phones are maturing. They are very powerful and do a lot: revolutionary change is much less likely now
  • news fatigue. There are significant improvements in every model; I bet your self from ten years ago would be amazed. Also it’s silly to expect revolutionary change every year. Look less often

Or why battery life gets so bad after two or so years that most people are forced to buy a new one.

  • iPhones seem to have better battery life. Come on over to the dark side
  • I gave my two year old iPhone to my teen and battery health was still high eighties percent
  • it’s really not that expensive to replace a battery. I mean, it might be in the latest models, but I historically pay Apple to do it after 2-3 years (so I can give it to my kid with full battery health) and it really doesn’t seem any more expensive after inflation than it’s been for decades. And there are cheaper places that can do it. While it’s a little frustrating that it’s difficult to do yourself, it’s just not put that bad
revisable677 ,

Your first point is fair, and I'm not really sure if it's just the technology maturing or a symptom of stifled innovation. Personally, I think there are still innovations to be made in this space, even big ones. But it's not just Apple's fault. The duopoly of iOS and Android has completely cornered the international market, new players have almost no chance, and the 30% cut app developers have to give Apple or Google puts them at a big disadvantage. I think a shakeup in the phone market would be very good for consumers.

iPhones seem to have better battery life.

I just have annecdotal evidence from people I know with iPhones (and mine, too, though it has been a while). It seemed to me, at least, that Apple phones tend to slow down quite a bit after a few years, and they start having battery problems. Some people I know seem to have gotten lucky with the battery thing, others not so much. But if it works well for you, then great!

More importantly, the "garden" is not the problem. If someone chooses to, they should be able to only use Apple products, download only Apps from the Appstore, and trust Apple with their data. It is the "walled" part of the deal which is the problem. Once inside, there should be an out. That is what the DOJ and the EU are trying to accomplish.

dustyData ,

“Please sir, don't take away my manacles. I don't know how to not be a slave!”

ILikeBoobies ,

Epic was unsuccessful so I don’t have hopes for this

blazera ,
@blazera@lemmy.world avatar

what issues do people here have with buying a phone not made by Apple?

affiliate ,

did you read the article?

blazera ,
@blazera@lemmy.world avatar

Yes. A laundry list of reasons to not buy an Apple phone. I had no trouble finding plenty of great alternatives, what problem are you running into?

flop_leash_973 ,

With Apple tipping over the ~50% market share in the US and with the current rulings in the EU, maybe the US DOJ smell blood in the water. Hopefully something unusually good for the consumer will come of this, but I won't be shocked if it doesn't.

miridius ,

I only recently found out about iPhones having 50% market share in the US and that's insane to me. I think anyone who's used both Android and iPhones a lot knows that iPhones are both a worse product and worse value for money, so in a fair market they would be the minority

Zedstrian ,

They're certainly a much worse value for the money and intentionally constrained in ways that maximize the profits of Apple services by making it inconvenient or impossible to use alternatives, but the UI is substantially better than Android. Aside from that and Apple device interoperability benefits, nearly any Android phone is a better choice for most people.

miridius ,

Agree to disagree I guess! I used an iPhone X as my daily driver for 3 years and was overjoyed to get the Android UI back when I switched back. The iPhone visuals are more consistent but the UX is significantly worse imo. There are a few things that I reckon are mainly just Apple being stubborn and refusing to admit they were wrong - e.g. the lack of a back button

iknowitwheniseeit ,

I'm reminded that Macs did not have right buttons for decades because Steve Jobbs didn't want them.

flit ,

I have an iMac for work. Right-click is still disabled by default on macOS. One of the first things our company has us do is re-enable it. I was provided a third-party mouse, some others were provided a Magic Mouse which doesn't have a right mouse button.

thimantha ,

Hard disagree. iOS UI/UX is sub par compared to Android. Consistent visuals and fancier animations don't mean that the UI is good.

arefx ,

I find the UI to be so much worse lol

iliketurtles ,

The IOS UI is so cumbersome

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

but the UI is substantially better than Android.

Yeah, hard disagree

For one, you can make Android look/behave like anything you want.

aphlamingphoenix ,

In general, I agree. I'll add two things:

  • Android allows you to use third party launchers if you don't like the one that comes with your phone. I use Nova Launcher, for instance. I'm not an Apple person, but to my knowledge that's either not possible or a pain to do on an iPhone. It also lets me buy from different Android device manufacturers and keep a consistent UI across all of them.
  • Android has some serious UX issues in a few places. The one that gets me the most is when you share something. The interface you get differs based on the source app, sometimes only has a handful of visible options with no sorting or recency options, and it hides the fact that's you can scroll to see more, but never more than about four at a time.

Still, I'll take it over an iPhone any day.

viking ,
@viking@infosec.pub avatar

The UI is terrible. Unintuitive and can't be customized. What's good about it?

ImTryingLemmy ,

but the UI is substantially better than Android

For children and drunks, maybe.

JCreazy ,

Now we just need the US to force carriers to automatically unlock phones after they are paid off.

LodeMike ,

They do actually. What you're talking about is unlocking the bootloader.

I wanted to borrow a friend's [old] phone to try out graphene but he got it from Verizon and they keep the bootloaders locked so it was worthless.

MyNamesNotRobert ,

As soon as smartphones started becoming commonplace in like 2009 or so, I dropped Verizon because I wasn't going to pay $500 for a smartphone that couldn't have custom roms. Verizon can go fuck themselves.

JCreazy ,

A lot of carriers make you wait a certain period of time before unlocking. I'm hoping that I can get my phone unlocked so I can install graphene OS. I got a good deal on it so that's why I bought it locked, I'm going to degoogle it as much as possible until I can get the bootloader unlocked.

chiliedogg ,

Hang a phone carrier unlocked and unlocking the bootloader are very different things.

JCreazy ,

I am well aware but you can't unlock the boot loader without having a phone carrier unlocked.

chiliedogg ,

It's been a while since I did it, but every single time I've unlocked a bootloader it's been on a carrier-locked device. I'd usualy do it to remove carrier bloat.

JCreazy ,

Carrier Unlocking is required before a phone can be bootloader unlocked, at least on my Pixel 8.

chiliedogg ,

Ahh - I think I see what you're getting at.

I think the Pixel allows unlocking the bootloader, so it's just the carrier in the way.

Most phones have to be hacked to unlock the bootloader because of the manufacturer locking it, so the carrier doesn't really matter since you're having to bypass locks anyway.

Blackmist ,

*Sees EU fining Apple*

Oh shit we can tell corporations what to do!

generalpotato ,

This. Smells like me too (the expression, not the movement) as opposed to a well thought out plan as to how they’ll tackle the monopoly.

masterspace ,

Biden appointed a bunch of pretty vehemently anti-monopoly people to power, this is just how long it actually takes them to conduct an investigation thorough enough to bring suit.

generalpotato ,

Right. Real Estate is a shit show and has been a shit show for decades with corporations buying out SFH homes and properties, driving up prices and making them unaffordable for the average American. If I was stack list of problems to tackle impacting Americans, that would be pretty high up the list instead of a tech company.

Of course, you can and should do both, but considering time and money are finite resources, it’s very on the nose to pick this fight instead of the one that impacts Americans the most.

I don’t think monopolies should exist, but also, we should be looking at regulations and law making instead of law suits.

dylanmorgan ,

I don’t know how much of that falls under the DOJ’s purview. Based on what I’ve heard from various congressional staffers, a physical letter mailed to your congressional representative actually does mean something. You can also go to your city council meetings and tell the city council they should do something about housing.

generalpotato ,

Oh, I’m in the heart of a place well known for exorbitant property values, and there’s been plenty of talk of “fixing housing”. Literally everybody runs on the platform of lowering property values, so I’m sure the letting your congressional staffer know has been done to death.

In addition to that, countless articles, op-eds, research has been published in the last 4 years alone and the point I’m making is, that this DOJ move seems more political theater than anything, which is surprising coming from folks that are supposedly about consumer rights and protections.

We need actual problems to be solved, not grand gestures and showboating of supposed take downs of “monopolies” when the laws around monopolistic practices are about as ancient as the presidential candidates trying to win points with their voter base.

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

Also, as everybody knows, governments can only do one thing at a time.

hamsterkill ,

The investigation actually started in 2019 under Trump's DoJ.

Monument ,

Awhile back a non tech person at work got hoodwinked into a sales pitch by a no name “AI” vendor. They, of course, invited a distribution list of all the IT and IT adjacent people to this pitch, thinking their ingenuity was going to transform our workplace and they were going to get accolades.

During the pitch, the sales guy (or CEO?) talked about Google getting surprised by Open AI, and that they rushed to build Bard, so they “could have their own ‘Me Too’ moment.” (With an inflection to indicate the Me Too comment was a reference.)

While I was watching people unmute, stay silent, then mute again, multiple group chats lit up at once.

(And the guy either didn’t understand LLM’s, or was hoping we really didn’t. It was peak marketing speak. He got crushed in the Q&A, ultimately revealing that the extent of his offering was to resell access to an established LLM vendor.)

generalpotato ,

Hahahaha that’s awesome! All the while scary to see the snakeoil-ism in tech.

Lucidlethargy ,
@Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works avatar

Good.

Shouted ,

Passing this would destroy Apple’s entire business, where they spend their effort and money deeply integrating their products to work together.

Instead, they’ll have to spend their time and money creating an API to let random Joe make a watch for an ecosystem they did nothing to create, foster, or maintain.

isles ,

Maybe they shouldn't have based their business on monopoly?

Shouted ,

People don’t need to use an iPhone. A symptom of our declining society is expecting people or businesses to accommodate your personal interests instead of you making an adult decision.

Wrench ,

Man, can you fanboy any harder?

Apple has some aggressive "in-club" style marketing and exclusivity practices.

iMessage intentionally massively degrades user experience when a non-iMessage user is in the chat, to encourage their iPhone users to harass their friends into getting an iPhone too.

The cruelty is the point. They want their users to ostracize their friends into converting friends and family to their platform.

horsey ,

How is “cruelty the point” while you’re saying that expanding their market share is the point? That would make cruelty a means to an end, not an end itself.

Holyginz ,

I hate to say it man, but you are talking to a brick wall. That don't understand, and more importantly they don't want to understand.

Shouted ,

And I’m speaking to a bunch of incel teenagers who are baby raging about a green bubble and how their parents won’t get them an iPhone.

That’s literally an argument in the DoJ’s case, btw. A case led by incels.

Wrench ,

And that tells me everything I need to know about your opinions. Horray for the block feature

Shouted ,

Thanks for being my first, I guess

CaptainEffort ,
@CaptainEffort@sh.itjust.works avatar

green bubble and how their parents won’t get them an iPhone.

Tbh I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but this take is embarrassing and doesn’t even make sense in the modern day. You realize plenty of Androids are the same price, if not more expensive, than iPhones right? What year do you think it is?

gian ,

A symptom of our declining society is expecting people or businesses to accommodate your personal interests instead of you making an adult decision.

A symptom of your declining society is expecting that the rules in place could be ignored.

It is true, nobody is forced to buy an iPhone but this not means that Apple could play in the game with a different set of rules from everyone else.

Shouted , (edited )

What existing rules? The rules designed for 19th/20th century oil companies that don’t apply to modern tech companies?

New rules are being written.

Apple could play in the game with a different set of rules

They’re playing a different game because they’re the ones who built the ballpark they’re playing in. Don’t like the game? Don’t go to the ballpark.

It’s so exhausting how you people simply can’t accept “don’t buy Apple” and leave it alone.

gian ,

What existing rules? The rules designed for 19th/20th century oil companies that don’t apply to modern tech companies?

They can be old and technically it can be a stretch to apply them to a tech company, but they are still here.

New rules are being written.

That's good

Apple could play in the game with a different set of rules

They’re playing a different game because they’re the ones who built the ballpark they’re playing in. Don’t like the game? Don’t go to the ballpark.

As long as the ballpark is not a problem for other people, ok. But if the ballpark is a problem for the people playing...

It’s so exhausting how you people simply can’t accept “don’t buy Apple” and leave it alone

"Don't buy Apple" is not a giustification for Apple to do something that is illegal, at least from the DOJ point of view.

Wrench ,

You mean, like the business model that Android has been using for years?

Or Windows / Linux have been using for decades?

What a weird thing to paint in a bad light.

Shouted ,

Android is an ecosystem made up of OEMs under the lead of Google, and all these OEMs have different business models. Google’s however, is an ad-based monopoly. Totally different business model. You referring to Android as a single entity shows how clueless you are about this topic.

Mobile is a different environment compared to desktop, so you’re comparing Apples to oranges.

Holyginz ,

Boo fucking hoo, android has done it for years and is fine. Apple doesn't want to do it because if they don't they can charge as much as they want for things because you can only get it from them. If they put half as much into innovation as they do into walling everything off they might actually have new ideas instead of the exact same phone with minor hardware and software upgrades that makes it the exact same phone but with a heftier price tag each subsequent generation.

Wrench ,

To be fair, the unwalled garden of Android hasn't really come back with anything compelling in a decade, either. Just iterative hardware improvements.

Which is fine. The space has matured. There will be other frontiers.

But at least this might result in a decrease of friction between users with different platforms.

Holyginz ,

I mean, I'm using the fold 3 which I am really liking and is definitely something new. But it is true more could be being done.

Shouted ,

You don’t need to buy an iPhone, and if you don’t have one then this doesn’t affect you and you’re baby raging about nothing. If you do have one and are still mad, then perhaps evaluate how little self control you have over your purchases.

Holyginz ,

Lol, try and lecture all you want little troll, you are just making yourself look like even more of a tool and a child. I couldn't care less either way what your opinion is because you have literally no idea what anyone else's circumstances are and you think you are better. Go study more and do a little more growing up next time you think you have any leg to stand on in judging what others situations are.

dustyData ,

Passing this would destroy Apple’s entire business

I think that is, indeed, the point.

Shouted ,

You think you want this, but you really don’t. If Apple is gone then Android is all that exists and THAT IS A REAL MONOPOLY.

dustyData , (edited )

I never said I wanted Apple gone, nor does their exploitative and abusive business model being stopped requires them to cease to exists. Get a grip, straw men don't look good on sidewalks, and you look like a fool when you bring one out to fight with it.

deweydecibel , (edited )

Be prepared for a lot of hand-wringing about "security".

Apple, Microsoft, and Google all learned in the last couple years "security" shuts down any arguments, and they use it at every turn to justify whatever they want, regardless of the actual dangers or alternative mitigation methods they could take.

If our modern software security means anti-competitive behavior and user lock-in tactics are OK, then that's a problem with our security practices, and we need to reevaluate some things.

ShepherdPie ,

If they utter "security for children" the government will probably not only drop the lawsuit but pay Apple $20 billion.

affiliate ,

they could get an extra 50 billion if they say “security for children, against terrorists”

100_kg_90_de_belin ,

Make it $100 billion if the terrorist children have brown faces.

Lucidlethargy ,
@Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works avatar

And deduct all billions if we're talking about domestic terrorism, or if there's any mention of insurrection.

fruitycoder ,

Market security maybe
What's next im not allowed to read the EULA because i may come up with nefarious ways to still use the service?

T156 ,

If you can read the EULA, then you can learn how to skirt around it, and therefore, letting you read the EULA is against the spirit of the EULA, and should be banned.

turkishdelight ,

They learned this line from the government. You can't criticise goverments after they utter the magical national security buzzwords.

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