Welcome to Incremental Social! Learn more about this project here!
Check out lemmyverse to find more communities to join from here!

paddirn ,

From "Don't be evil" to now, "Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb".

KonalaKoala ,
@KonalaKoala@lemmy.world avatar

Last time I heard a line like that is by Dark Helmet in Space Balls.

spiderwort ,

What's up with all the masks? Do they want to be anonymous?

melpomenesclevage ,

yes, or they really should.

why organized labor isnt willing to kill, but still thinks they can be effective, is so far beyond me.

Prethoryn , (edited )
@Prethoryn@lemmy.world avatar

I am seeing a lot of comments on here but the context not being mentioned is that they were protesting while clocked in or working on the clock.

Google is technically in authority to do that. The article is worded a bit out of context to make the act of protesting an a big company we all find to be evil more evil for letting employees go that were wasting company time.

I get it before you even type it I understand Google isn't short on money and the time portion won't effect them but has the employees protested while clocked out this would have been a less likely outcome and I also get it, "yeah they would have fired them anyway." Sure believe what you want but it doesn't take away that Google had the authority to fire while the employees were in their time no matter what they were protesting. If I did this at my job and was getting paid they would fire me as well.

EDIT: Lemmy is Reddit but it's full of users in denial.

Corkyskog ,

It wouldn't be a very effective protest if they did it on their own time lol

Prethoryn ,
@Prethoryn@lemmy.world avatar

"It wouldn't be very effective if they did it on their own time." - well it appears to me it wasn't very effective doing it on company time.

In fact I would argue that the majority of these stories have a higher impact when they are very much not doing it on company time because then Google fires against the law. There are laws that protect you while protesting or going into a union in certain states. Google has fired numerous times breaking California laws for firing while people are trying to unionize or protest off the company time which I would say is more effective because it garners far more attention.

melpomenesclevage ,

does your job support a genocidal theocratic ethnostate?

Prethoryn ,
@Prethoryn@lemmy.world avatar

Get the fuck out of here with the straw man. Google is and has been a problem in more ways than one but they were within their rights to fire people. This is just a dumb ass question to divert right into your already justified opinion because Google is "evil" and it needs to stay that way but if you can't see that a company has a right to fire when you are getting paid on their time then you are just as unreasonable.

It sucks for these people but you are just as much in the circlejerk on Lemmy as everyone else if your first statement is a question asking something like this because you can't discuss it and would rather find any other reasons to just say "But Google bad." No one is disagreeing with this that Google isn't a monopoly, powerhouse, and abuses its uses. The point and statement here is that Google had a right to fire them.

melpomenesclevage , (edited )

corporations are not people. I don't give a shit about their "rights", I don't give a shit about their dignity, abd I don't give a shit about their assets. why the fuck do you? do you tjinkgoogle gives a shit about your 'rights '? dignity? assets? are you high?

they are doing bad things and need to he stopped.they aren't people, they do not have feelings, and there is no moral harm from doing anything to one. all is permitted, barring collateral damage, which might be permitted.

there is a moral good in stopping them from doing a bad thing. in making them less efficient at doing the bad thing.

them doing bad thing is bad. there aren't rules-not for them; I think this is pretty well established. there is no 'allowed' or 'disallowed' if the rules only apply to one party. your rules-as-substitute-for-morality shit completely breaks down outside a bourgeoise white mid 20th century context; these days its just victim blaming gaslighting bullshit and everybody knows it.

diffusive ,

Confidentially incorrect: at Google there is no clock in and no clock out (for employees, contractors is different). At Google you can work 1h per day or 20h per day you earn the same. Performances are assessed on the output not on the hour worked.

So, no, find another reason for which Google is right.
Popular topic is “they disrupt other people work by making noise” (of course people can work on a laptop in another place because there is generally no special equipment at the desk but details) or “they destroyed properties… you cannot see in the picture but they destroyed millions of precious bacteria on the floor”

gian ,

I think that there are two main reasons that caused them to be fired: insubordination since they occupied the CEO's office and refused to leave when asked (and probably he don't asked only one time) which led to the second reason, they were arrested for trespassing in the CEO's office.

diffusive ,

As far as I heard (but I am not too familiar) the CEO is essentially never in the office.

Also, according to the video, the office is in California. People were arrested (and fired) in NY as well (where there is no such an office).

Yes, insubordination is the key point. But it’s also the key point of a protest. The take away is that Google doesn’t accept a protest (any more?)

Re trespassing: in the Google offices everyone can pretty much go to any office. They realistically didn’t break into but, sure, they were in an office that wasn’t theirs

gian ,

As far as I heard (but I am not too familiar) the CEO is essentially never in the office.

Maybe, but that not the point.

Yes, insubordination is the key point. But it’s also the key point of a protest. The take away is that Google doesn’t accept a protest (any more?)

There are limits though. While you are free to protest, I am entitled to not want you to protest in my home.

Prethoryn ,
@Prethoryn@lemmy.world avatar

"Google pays its employees in two ways: monthly or bi-weekly installments, and bonuses. Google's compensation structure is based on three components: salary, bonus, and equity. Salary is determined by several factors, including: Role, Level, Location, Cost of labor in the region, and Pay targets." Literally the first Google (unironically).

I am all for pointing bad things out that companies do but contractors can still be fired or let go if those contractors aren't meeting performance. Tek Systems is a contractor that does just this.

"Performance is assess on the output." - my dude you literally just said, "Google can fire them" what is it with the Lemmy brain? It's a circle jerk in here of people talking about how they are better because they are on a defederated platform using open source tools and software but doing the exact same thing other platforms do. Boxing yourselves in justifying your opinions just to be a part of a group then claiming to have the better opinion that the "shit" you see on Reddit

Lemmy users and the platform are literally no different than others. You aren't better because you are not a "normie" and don't have to deal with the consequences of Windows or other OS's. That doesn't go without saying there isn't knowledge and information to share learn from others and Lemmy has knowledge worth listening to but God damn if some people on here aren't just as likely to just justify their own opinions the same as another platform and for God's sake I get that it's the Internet but if you can say that then you are self aware that your opinion is not completely reasonable without discussing it.

I don't need to find another reason Google isn't the problem because their are many reasons Google is a problem but this case is being taken out of context. If they were employees disrupting the work place and protesting on company time then Google was within their rights to fire them. If the are contractors then from a quick assessment they clearly were not performing as paid and hired to do so. Google had a right to fire these people no matter what side of the fence you stand on. Does it suck? Sure. I don't care if you are a down with Google person if you can't understand this then you are just flat out unreasonable and the same as any other user on any other platform.

Sp00kyB00k ,

That's the point of protest. The rules are made to keep the status quo, not be good.
And some rules suck balls.

Prethoryn ,
@Prethoryn@lemmy.world avatar

This is sort of a shit opinion, IMO. Why should a company have to change the rules to pay me when I am not working on their time?

Keeping people productive on companies time is not a "status quo" it's working on working time. If these employees had just protested after their shifts Google could have probably still and would have more than likely fired them either way but the point is that it wouldn't have been on their time giving them less grounds to do so.

MeanEYE ,
@MeanEYE@lemmy.world avatar

Good luck with that sentiment. People tried to boycott products made or designed in Israel and then realized it's near impossible. Edit: Found a list

local_taxi_fix ,

It's impossible to target all of them, yes. But that's why BDS creates a targeted list of the worst offenders to concentrate consumer boycott pressure.

Currently the BDS list includes 8 targets, including HP, Sabra, Siemens, Puma, and Soda stream.
https://bdsmovement.net/get-involved/what-to-boycott

Burn_The_Right ,

That list is not "products made or designed in Israel". That list is just companies that support Israel.

I just don't want anyone to have the false impression that a relationship with Israel is necessary. It definitely is not.

melpomenesclevage , (edited )

do steal them though. stealing them is good.

edit: this got down votes? let me explain: if you just dont buy them, someone else can. If you steal them, then whatever middleman spends the cost but doesn't make the profit. if lots of people steal them, the insurance on that cargo/merchandise goes up. it gets more expensive and eventually market forces mean those products won't get stocked, when theres any alternative.

which means they get less. you not having to go without, or even making a profit, is just a nice bonus.

AWittyUsername ,

It worked for McDonald's and Starbucks though. If you boycott the major ones it should have some impact.

Luisp ,

Google: don't be --evil--

bitwaba ,

Use two tildes (~) before and after:

Google: don't be ~~evil~~

Google: don't be evil

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

more like google: dont be evil

bitwaba ,

I don't know, I kind of like the idea of someone deciding their company motto is to not exist at all.

wabafee ,
@wabafee@lemmy.world avatar

google : dont

T00l_shed ,

Don't be? Evil! A la Lionel Hutz

csm10495 ,
@csm10495@sh.itjust.works avatar

Say hello to Miguel Sanchez.

GoodEye8 ,

Well they actually changed the motto because "don't be evil" was too ambiguous. The motto now is "do the right thing". It's now okay to be evil, as long as you're "doing the right thing".

eronth ,

Yeah, of all the things google has done, rewrite "don't be evil" is really not one of them. Didn't their parent company also pick up the motto as well?

werefreeatlast ,

"Do evil and hide it for long enough such that people can't do much about it later when they find out about it"?
DEAHIFLESTPCDMAILWTFOAI for short?

dsemy ,

Who would've thought an evil company would mistreat its employees. They literally work for a corporation whose main business involves violating your human rights, if they really care they wouldn't have worked there in the first place.

LoveSausage ,

Instead they should just work for all those good companies that's everywhere under capitalism. Workers don't have a say in company policy and companies are as bad as they can be. The fact that nestle murder more people than Fazer , isn't about that one is more "evil" than the other, it's what they can get away with. Evil is a childish concept.

uriel238 ,
@uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Inconveniencing protests that go unrecognized or are criminalized lead to the next step: industrial sabotage.

Maybe Google needs to lose a few servers to captured NSO malware.

Son_of_dad ,

Seems misleading, as I highly doubt they were charged with "protesting contract with Israel". Is that a misdemeanor?

Also love that Google workers suddenly grew a conscience

GeneralVincent ,

It's a trespassing charge from what I could find. Although there are laws against boycotting Israel

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2023/feb/21/us-supreme-court-arkansas-anti-boycott-israel-law

WallEx ,

Thats so wild

Maggoty ,

The anti BDS laws are relevant to companies, not workers. Though it is still hilarious to me that we can't have religious freedom because companies have a first amendment right however they can't exercise that right in regards to Israel.

The GOP is just so transparently making shit up as they go along for their own convenience.

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA ,
@HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world avatar

Yes. All 28 of them. Out of what, 180,000-ish?

avidamoeba ,
@avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

Am I being an idiot for thinking that protesting like this, when the union is relatively small is counterproductive? I'd think I'd want to represent the majority of the workers, then protest or outright strike which will halt the cloud operations they want to halt, if that's what the majority of union members vote to do.

noxy ,
@noxy@yiffit.net avatar

Doesn't matter, even if it was just two workers it's still protected concerted activity which is illegal to retaliate against.

Wrench ,

Trespassing is not a protected form of protest. Wtf are you talking about?

noxy ,
@noxy@yiffit.net avatar

Indeed not. I was commenting on the scale of protestors, not trespass.

Wrench ,

Well, it made the national news, so seems like it was somewhat effective.

WallEx ,

So You think they shouldn't have done anything, because the union is not big enough? Moral is not an option with a small union? Am I getting this right?

avidamoeba , (edited )
@avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

I think it depends on the goal. If I'm trying to stop a corporation from doing something profitable a large union, one that contains most corpo workers, including the ones producing this profit, can strike, halting the production that generates this profit. The union could do this for a moral reason. If the union however contains for the sake of argument 1% of the workers and none of the ones doing the work in question, then staging a protest can't force a stop to the morally reprehensible production. It also makes this 1% an easy target to get rid of thus making it harder to organize more workers needed to stop production. So if I wanted to gain this power over the corpo, I would probably protest outside of union capacity.

E: They're already gone..

WallEx ,

Yeah, american employee protection sucks ... Where I live you could easily fight being fired for this. So maybe thats where our different stances come from.

gian ,

If there is a criminal charge or conviction I think you would be fired in most countries.

WallEx ,

What would be the crime here? Am I missing something? Protesting is not (or shouldn't be) against the law, as long as you don't behave illegally)

gian ,

Reports seems to indicate that they were arrested for trespassing.

WallEx ,

Ah that, yeah they were in the CEOs office. That might be misdemeanor, but is it a felony? Pretty sure you couldn't be fired for this here.

gian ,

I don't know, but it seems that at least it is enough to be arrested.

WallEx ,

Could be

Burn_The_Right ,

In the U.S., you can be fired for practically anything.

WallEx ,

Yeah, probably

avidamoeba ,
@avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

This is probably why they called the cops, so they can fire them for an obvious cause and not have to deal with any questions.

whoreticulture ,

I'm sure they'd love to have enough supporters to do a general strike, and those have been proposed and attempted over Gaza. Unfortunately, opposing Israel's genocidal actions is not the mainstream view... especially being opposed enough to participate in activism. With only a handful of people, these sit-ins were able to disrupt the company and make news.

GrymEdm ,
@GrymEdm@lemmy.world avatar

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/eb36ff1f-d23c-4216-aa18-dca5daee6746.jpeg

the_post_of_tom_joad ,

It's not a protest if it doesn't inconvenience who you're protesting. All real protesters are arrested, because they inconvenience power (who have but the way made all inconvenient protests illegal).

I'm proud of these guys for standing up for what they believe in. Solidarity.

CatTrickery ,

Protest should intend on being an inconvenience, though arrest should be avoided if at all possible. It absolutely kills longevity and leads to people making arrest a core intention while rambling about non-violence. Really what you want is to have strategy and numbers that spook cops enough to not bother because they won't if they think its going to be too much trouble for them.

the_post_of_tom_joad ,

Agreed. I didn't mean to imply arrest was the goal but rather a common side-effect of effective protest.

Maggoty ,

Most protest arrests in the US are released the same day or the next day. Nobody looking to make a movement is getting taken off the board.

Of course the people in power do keep trying to change that. But as of yet, they've been unsuccessful.

CatTrickery ,

While they are released it assists the police with intelligence gathering. In the UK police are known for giving bail conditions like "you can't meet within more than 4 people"

Maggoty ,

Yeah they've been doing that for so long the American first amendment includes the right to "peaceably assemble". And I should be clear these arrests are absolutely a breach of our rights. In the US it would be unthinkable for someone carrying a gun to be arrested without provocation.

treefrog ,

Sounds like they were arrested for trespassing because they were protesting inside the CEOs office amongst other places.

At stake is that this cloud technology will be used for military applications by IDF and ultimately help perpetuate genocide .

locke ,

Does this mean there are new open positions at Google?

disguy_ovahea ,

position to be removed as downsizing opportunity following termination

Sneptaur ,
@Sneptaur@pawb.social avatar

"Hmm, these people got arrested for being against genocide. Sounds like a great place for me to work!"

I sure hope you're joking

locke ,

Well, I probably cannot get in there anyway so it's a bit moot. Plus it would mean a major relocation. But yeah, I'd happily work on an Israel contract.

Sneptaur ,
@Sneptaur@pawb.social avatar

Wow, that's disgusting. Have you no morals? Shame on you.

pivot_root ,

$200k a year and a pizza party are what his morals are worth, apparently.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

"I sold my moral compass to Lockheed Martin Google for 90k/year and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt"

locke ,

Are you trying to be funny?

RageAgainstTheRich ,

Are you? You have zero issues with 10s of thousands of innocent people being murdered?

uriel238 ,
@uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Some of us can resent the genocide committed in the name of our state and civilization, or condoned by our state, while simultaneously being desperate for our personal welfare and also fearing the rising trends of genocide in our own nation, hence we may not only work for genocide-supporting companies to stay alive, but also vote for genocide-condoning neoliberals to vote against fascists.

I hate being in a position like this (and personally don't have to work for any company) but here in the States were imminently fucked and only pushing the fuckery down the calandar.

And few Germans from the days of the reich were forgiven, so I suspect in the aftermath only those Americans who were fed to our detention centers and prisons will ultimately be forgiven, if even them.

whoreticulture ,

If you're so desperate, work for a restaurant or something. Google isn't your only option, I've lived in the high-cost-of-living bay area with all sorts of jobs, including minimum wage jobs. You can make it work without working for Google ffs

uriel238 ,
@uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

It sounds like you got lucky in being able to survive restaurant work and being able to manage surviving in the post-gentrification bay area. Most people are not so lucky.

To be fair, I don't have statistics, and we don't track how many people do morally odious work despite their own ethics because it pays the bills. But we do account for the high numbers of people who tolerate harassment and sexual assault, who tolerate toxic work environments because they need the compensation to eat and pay rent.

If it helps, morally questionable work does tend to have a high-turnover rate, akin to drone operators in the US military and CIA drone strike programs and the Einsatzgrupen of the German Reich. We humans really do lose sleep over doing work that is linked to massacres.

As per all things, life in deteriorating societies can be very challenging, to the point that suicides and rampage killings (which are, more or less, angry suicides) occur at conspicuously elevated levels. But some people are going to club seals sooner than succumbing to their own misery in hopes they can survive long enough they no longer have to club seals to sustain themselves.

whoreticulture ,

There is a lot of in-between from Server to Googler. You're acting like people don't have options.

uriel238 ,
@uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

How about then I just say it, then. People in the US in 2024 are in fact, often that desperate. No, frequently, they do not have options. At best they're choosing between a handful of bad options.

whoreticulture ,

It's just patently untrue, there is no situation in which someone HAS to work at Google. There are so, so many options. Especially for someone educated enough to land a job at Google in the first place.

Aux ,

There are plenty of people who support Israel and believe it is the moral thing to do. Morals are subjective and arbitrary. They cannot be used to judge one's actions.

Larry ,

Actions can be judged plenty over morals

Burn_The_Right ,

They cannot be used to judge one's actions.

So, when I say it is my moral obligation to help rid the planet of conservatives because they are evil, I do hope you will not condemn my moral actions.

Aux ,

I don't care.

Gabu ,

I am morally obligated to punch all conservative scum until they lose a few teeth :)

uriel238 ,
@uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

You may underestimate the ongoing desperation for paid full time work with benefits in the US.

A lot of folk are one paycheck, one tragedy, one road accident or severe sickness away from homelessness.

And homelessness is already criminalized in some counties.

Sneptaur ,
@Sneptaur@pawb.social avatar

These are not the type of job for someone struggling so much. This is tech work. Googlers are very privileged.

uriel238 ,
@uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

They are, which means they know how dear their position is.

The concern for survival goes right up the hierarchy. Someone who works at Google fears falling out of their career and ending up in a one-paycheck-from-homelessness job. We've seen the same despair among political staffers; getting dismissed by an elected official could end their career in politics, meaning they're one of the rest of us.

Truth be told, I couldn't hack it and serve a toxic boss, but plenty of people would rather work in a cushy job for an evil overlord than a toxic job that is morally clean. That is one of the costs of existing in a society that runs on late-stage capitalism.

Maeve ,

Friendly reminder: There will always be scabs

WallEx ,

Wow, a genuine genocide supporter, would you look at that.

JdW ,
@JdW@lemmy.world avatar

Wow, a genuine terrorsim supporter. would you look at that.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • technology@lemmy.world
  • random
  • incremental_games
  • meta
  • All magazines
    •