Manifest v3 is Worse than I Thought

mycodesucks , 4 months ago

Please, people... just switch to Ultron. (Make sure to update your Adobe Reader).

chicken , 4 months ago

I thought they cancelled manifest v3 after the backlash?

Croquette , 4 months ago

They never do. They wait for the backlash to be over, change a few things and try it again.

sweet , 4 months ago

I wish firefox would just add tab-groups back like chrome has or literally any chrome based browser... Ive tried literally every tab extension in the store and w/e I could find on Github but they all aren't to my liking. They basically all use a side bar. I just want to slide my 100 tabs of manga and obscure programming blogs out of sight lol other than that, firefox is pretty much better in most ways.

swordsmanluke , 4 months ago

Have you tried one of the panorama plugins? It's not quite the same but it works for me.

Anon518 , 4 months ago

This is still working https://medium.com/@Morikko/the-story-of-sync-tab-groups-the-web-extension-for-managing-your-tabs-d40ebb1079ec if you can find a place to download it.

Aria , 4 months ago

Maybe I'm being stupid but doesn't Firefox have tab-groups?
https://lemmygrad.ml/pictrs/image/42c5a63b-8cb7-42cb-9106-1ca91c170edb.png

LWD , 4 months ago

Different use case. Those are containers, which have a similar color... But in Chrome, everything is in one container, the colored tabs are just grouped together and those groups can be collapsed to save horizontal space in the tab bar.

grandel , 4 months ago

Simple Tab Groups

stratosfear , 4 months ago

Windows group tabs. Just open a new window for each task of tabs.

ArcaneSlime , 4 months ago

Be really cool if they'd at least add it to their mobile browser though.

Mindful , 4 months ago

Does Firefox multi-account-containers work for you? Not on a desktop atm. but maybe you still need to have separate windows for that...

Anyways I'd still highly recommended the extension!

LWD , 4 months ago

Sidebery does a pretty good job of managing tab groups from a sidebar, although it's much less ad-hoc

Gooey0210 , 4 months ago

We will kill chrome

darkstar , 4 months ago

I doubt it. Normies love chrome, and the majority of normies don't even know about ad blockers. Chrome will continue unfortunately

Gooey0210 , 4 months ago

Are you using chrome? 🫤

darkstar , 4 months ago

Nope, I use Firefox

Obi , 4 months ago

Anyone remembers when Chrome was the hot new kid on the block and we all converted the "normies" to it because it was so much better than IE? We're reaping what we sowed.

makingStuffForFun , 4 months ago

I still carry so much shame for this.

darkstar , 4 months ago

This is so true. I feel personally responsible

Zerush , 4 months ago (edited 4 months ago)

No problems with the inbuild adblocker in Vivaldi, not even in YouTube (without any ads for me), problems only for Chromiums in which are remaining control and tracking APIs from Google and which are only can use "descaffeinated" Adblockers from the Chrome Store. I can use even direct userscripts in Vivaldi if needed, without the need of Tamper-, Greasy- or Violentmonkey extensions.
Vivaldi is a Chromium browser, but Google for the past 9 years has hit its teeth on a rock in attempts to control it.

cashews_best_nut , 4 months ago

I was a Vivaldi user, like you, until I used Floorp and now I'm a crack addict.

Zerush , 4 months ago

Floorp is a nice Browser. Apart of Vivaldi, I use also the Mullvad Browser and the SSuite Netsurf for some tasks, before I also had the Midory Browser (almost identical to Floorp) and almost all others which are exist or existed in the past. But Vivaldi remain my main browser since 8 years.

RIP_Cheems , 4 months ago

Good think I don't use chrome.

mathiouchio , 4 months ago

Great minds thing alike.

umbrella , 4 months ago

get firefox and ublock origin.

its so fucking simple, why do people have such weird attachment to chrome??

lemmyreader , 4 months ago

Agreed on using Firefox/LibreWolf and uBlock Origin, I love that combination. I think the thing is that Google Chrome is much faster than Firefox on Android phones (I don't mind, I hardly ever use mobile to browse), and long time habits can be hard to break for some people.

ziixe , 4 months ago

Yup, can say that firefox is quite a bit slower on android (but honestly it's still quite ok, unless it decides to loop loading the page, or it bugs out in another way, at least on my phone it's quite prone to breaking, for comparison brave is really a bit faster than Firefox

admiralteal , 4 months ago

Way faster when you consider time spent loading and navigating around all the fucking ads. The mobile web without adblock is a dumpster fire of the highest order.

ziixe , 4 months ago

Well of course, that's why I compared brave and not chrome, although the brave adblock sucks sometimes

But yeah, the firefox on android is good enough to set it as a default browser (never actually noticed that the Google discover page just opens in chrome and ignores your default browser before doing this, interesting how some apps do this too)

admiralteal , 4 months ago

Yeah the Google News app too. It's fucking useless -- any time you click something on it you get served up a page of nothing but ads, modals, autoplays, and other unusable crap. Bouncing around as it loads. I had to finally uninstall it and switch to just a bookmark on the homescreen instead.

StopSpazzing , 4 months ago

Disable chrome/browser on android

umbrella , 4 months ago

Yeah, it IS slower on android, but adblocking more than makes up for it IMO.

ziixe , 4 months ago

Also not only that, but the ability to let me choose if I want to open a link in an app or not, happens countless times with stuff like GitHub automatically wanting to redirect to the app (which sucks)

umbrella , 4 months ago

oh there was a bug a few versions back that did this, but it seems they fixed it now

MonkderZweite , 4 months ago

Google Chrome is much faster than Firefox on Android phones

Not with the ads (Firefox Android has uBlock).

Concave1142 , 4 months ago

We are in the middle of rolling out a new SaaS solution at work that just works better in Edge. The amount of outrageous levels of anger and disgust we get from telling them to use Edge is stupid. Even telling users it is built on Chromium, just like Chrome, does nothing to dissuade their unfounded anger.

With some people it actually comes down to telling them, "if you don't use Edge, then I guess you need to start looking for another job that only uses Chrome".

I just don't get it.

cm0002 , 4 months ago

Edge can go fucking die, MS has lost all trust with me when it comes to them and Internet Browsers, I rip edge out of all my systems no matter what it might "break".

Maybe you should deploy solutions that are browser agnostic. That kind of shit is how we ended up with IE and its proprietary BS like ActiveX years ago. Clearly, people are forgetting history

meat_popsicle , 4 months ago

lol like management gives two shits about how browser agnostic a product is. business solutions look to address the perceived gap or need, not tailor to IT personnel feelings.

cm0002 , 4 months ago

That's easy, just find [Some important person] who can't live without [Chrome/Firefox/Whatever] and bring them to your side lmao

Either way, it didn't sound like he was saying "I tried to push for better, but management shut me down" it sounded like he was happy to move to edge and "couldn't understand why people were angry"

driveway , 4 months ago

Why would you target a browser with 5% market share instead 65? How do you even manage to make an application that's performing vastly different on different UIs but the same engine? Sounds like you need to go looking for real engineers to build your thing.

Heavybell , 4 months ago

For better and worse, most people don't care what's under the hood. They care about the surface features. I.e. Chrome already has their bookmarks, the buttons are all in the same place, etc.

You and I know there's little difference but end users don't want to change, even if it's to something that would benefit them in the long run (i.e. Firefox)

jmp242 , 4 months ago

Not so much chrome, but many browsers (like my favorite Vivaldi) are chromium based. I wish they'd just keep uBlock going in the chromium rebuilds, but IDK if that's possible. Seems like it should be to me though.

Also, we switched at work from Firefox because somehow they broke system level updates a few years ago, and nothing I could do was able to figure out why their installer stopped working without first having someone run the uninstall graphically to update to the new version. It would just say Firefox wasn't a valid windows exe till I manually removed it. And even the Mozilla Enterprise list seemed flummoxed. Honestly, I think they should have reverted the installer change, or even just use a standard installer that doesn't have this problem, but hey.

yogthos , 4 months ago

This is precisely why I've never found Chromium based browsers to be of much relevance. These are just skins on top of the rendering engine which is the core of the browser and that's entirely controlled by Google. People kept ignoring this and now we're in a situation where Chrome and its derivatives dominate the market to the point where sites no longer care whether they follow W3C specs as long as Chrome renders them. We're now back in pretty much the same situation we were in the days of IE.

It's depressing that people were unable to understand where things were going until Google started doing blatantly evil things. The only thing that was keeping Google in check before was the fact that it was lack of market dominance. Google is an ads company, and there is a huge conflict of interest with them being the gatekeepers to the internet.

Charger8232 , 2 months ago

Fun fact: This is my favorite comment in all of Lemmy, and I've been monitoring Lemmy for months. This is my favorite simply for the one question of "Why do people have such a weird attachment to Chrome?"

I will find an answer one day.

1984 , 4 months ago

I'm interested but I'm not watching 30 minutes of video...

Tak , 4 months ago

The person in the video talks so slowly I can listen to it at 1.5x speed. I feel like a jerk because it's clearly not their first language and I can only imagine how difficult that can be but at 1x speed it's a seriously slow video.

To my understanding this is a more in-depth breakdown of how and why browser extensions will not be able to intercept the webpage before the browser displays it and instead it will be executed via scripts on the browser itself. Google claims this is to speed up the process, improve security, and reduce computational power and it does seem to do that but at the expense of the freedom of the browser extensions to alter the web pages being displayed.

1984 , 4 months ago

Thank you. Sounds like the typical reasons to remove freedom from the users. :)

nicetriangle , 4 months ago

Everyone losing their minds over this like Firefox doesn't exist.

Stop using Chrome.

The reason this is even a big problem is because everyone piled on Google's browser despite all the obvious reasons that wasn't gonna be a good idea on the long term.

I never understood why anybody thought a company – whose principal business is advertising and data mining – wouldn't eventually rug pull everyone like this with their browser as soon as it hit critical mass for market share.

cm0002 , 4 months ago

Firefox exists, but it has its issues, it's def not so great at memory optimization. It will regularly crash on me once I go beyond around 100 tabs regardless of how much system resources I throw at it (Seriously, it did the same thing on a 4 socket server with 512GBs RAM)

And starts getting sluggish when I even start approaching it. Chrome otoh, reserves a lot of RAM for itself, but at least it can manage it well into the hundreds of tabs I throw at it

ebits21 , 4 months ago

Whyy

leave_it_blank , 4 months ago

Forgive me, but if there ever was a niche scenario this is it.

floofloof , 4 months ago

You're the kind of user software developers dread.

darkstar , 4 months ago

Please leave this conversation, because you're probably the only user who goes over 100 tabs. Normal people have about 10 open just for your reference

Aria , 4 months ago

I routinely have more than 100 tabs open. Firefox doesn't crash for me or use much RAM. Many tabs is a normal use-case and Firefox working worse than alternatives in such scenarios is a failing of Firefox.

But again, mine handles it fine. So potentially OP should try again with an up to date Firefox.

Cannonhead2 , 4 months ago

Can refute. I regularly get up to 200.

Apparently it's super common among people with ADHD.

stratosfear , 4 months ago

I have the opposite experience. I easily can have as many tabs at times and I've seen chrome use over 10gb of ram and fully lock at times. I switched to Firefox for that reason and others and it performs much better with that many tabs open. Most ram I've seen it using is about 6gb. Minimal and equivalent plugins in both. I've never had firefox crash. This across multiple computers. I now have uninstalled chrome everywhere...

shmanio , 4 months ago

Since you are sharing anecdotes, let me join.

For me FF has always been extremely stable, and I too regularly keep 100+ tabs open, on much more limited system resources. It is so stable that I've completely disabled history saving, and if there is something I want to read later I just keep the tab open. Never had an issue.

Tree Style Tabs also pushed me to have many tabs, because now I can actually organize those that I've opened and find them later.

wahming , 4 months ago

Because there weren't any great options at the time. Firefox has gotten better, but at that time Chrome was just super fast and lightweight in comparison to all the competitors.

MalReynolds , 4 months ago

enshitification 101

squid_slime , 4 months ago

And google will kill its self

LufyCZ , 4 months ago

Nah, they know what they're doing.

squid_slime , 4 months ago

Wishful thinking on my part tbh, I forget that there is an ecosystem with gmail :/

PrivateNoob , 4 months ago

Yeah and it's kinda hard to get off from that. I'm in the process of switching my 2 gmail accounts to 2 proton ones and it seems that the ProtonMail app's free plan doesn't support multiple emails. Understandable but sad.

driveway , 4 months ago

You wiuldn't believe the amount of people who don't use adblockers even now.

ziixe , 4 months ago

You wouldn't believe how many people are actually incompetent using a pc beyond using default values and browsing the web, for example in school one day I had to help classmates save their project documents to the school's server, because they didn't know how to browse the select folder dialogue box (or whatever it's called), and another dude in my class didn't know how to use the shortcut bar at the bottom of the window in PowerPoint so he literally scrolled through the ribbon for like 2 minutes before he managed to launch the presentation (and this guy is a straight A student to note), I also heard stories about coworkers which didn't know how to open a zip file or how to forward an email

The oversimplification of software is really problematic, since everything is made to be as straightforward as it can be people just go with it and then have a problem when they need to do something a different way

Zerush , 4 months ago

I think the same, obviously Google don't know the Cobra Effect

Vinny_93 , 4 months ago

Who uses chrome anyway even there's vivaldi

driveway , 4 months ago

Give me some of that closed source browser goodness, yes. Vivaldi and Chrome are the same thing from a privacy perspective precisely because you cannot verify that they're not.

jmp242 , 4 months ago

Although you could take into account what the makers are telling you. You have to trust someone, and at least to my knowledge, Google fails and it's all over the news, Vivaldi has not. It's not like I can validate the Firefox source either, I'm just trusting the website I download it from, or more likely my distro packaging. And people do look at call outs browsers make etc.

driveway , 4 months ago

Although you could take into account what the makers are telling you.

Google claims Chrome is private too.

all over the news, Vivaldi has not

Becauae not many gives a fuck about Vivaldi enough to reverse engineer it

not like I can validate the Firefox source either

You don't have to. Thousand of people who know what they're doing does.

just trusting the website I download it from, or more likely my distro packaging

This is a separate security, not privacy, issue resolved by trust chain model of distro packaging.

jmp242 , 4 months ago

You don’t have to. Thousand of people who know what they’re doing does.
But why would I trust any of them? I'm pointing out you have to choose who you trust, and from the history with the makers of Vivaldi, I trust them. Same as I don't trust Google given their history.

Of course, I'm screwed anyway because there's not reasonable competition in the phone space, and I have to use Microsoft products for work, and... {insert a dozen more things here}. Given all that, I'd like the browser that works better for me.

driveway , 4 months ago

that works better for me.
sure, I could not care less what browsers others use.

Trusting a company to do right by you (for unknown reasons) vs. trusting thousands of independent researchers who have no incentive to wrong you. Though pick, I guess.

Cheradenine , 4 months ago (edited 4 months ago)

To paraphrase ' a Chrome by any other name would smell as sweet'

floofloof , 4 months ago

Choose a Firefox-based browser instead for open source.

ghostface , 4 months ago

Browser Wars!!!!!!!!!

backhdlp , 4 months ago

Who uses vivaldi anyway even there’s firefox

hOrni , 4 months ago

I just can't use a browser so... primitive? I wold gladly change to Firefox if it gave me all the customisation options Vivaldi has. Mouse gestures, synchronising my settings across 2 PCs and an android phone, shortcuts to different searchers etc. Plus it would need to be visually customisable so od doesn't irritate me every couple of minutes.

lukecooperatus , 4 months ago

Mouse gestures, synchronising my settings across 2 PCs and an android phone, shortcuts to different searchers etc. Plus it would need to be visually customisable

It sounds like perhaps you haven't looked into Firefox for a while, because out of the box it does all of the things you listed, except for gestures. There are multiple popular plugins that provide Firefox gestures easily. I'm not sure what visual customizations you're referring to, but Firefox also has had support for themes for ages now.

hOrni , 4 months ago

I don't care for themes, just need night mode. I need the option to throw out any taskbars except fot tabs and address bar. Including any search window. I need a zoom slider at the bottom right corner, and this is a must. It's also nice to have these things built in instead of looking for extensions. And You are right, o haven't looked into Firefox for a long time.

backhdlp , 4 months ago

except for gestures

2 finger swipe to the left or right is the gesture to go back and forward, don't know what other gestures you'd need.

hOrni , 4 months ago

The "cradle" for going forward and backwards plus swipes for closing a tab, refreshing and opening a new tab.

jmp242 , 4 months ago

My problem is - last time I looked, which was a while ago to be fair - there weren't good tab management plugins that also supported tab title search, a list of tabs to easily close ones I didn't need anymore with ctrl+click or shift+click, no session management, problems with cross window tab viewing/searching, no tab stacks, and now workspaces are kind of awesome for me too.

I'm not saying there aren't extensions for each thing, I'm saying I could NOT get them all to work together, and have a fast performant browser without weird hangs, and the UI was kind of all over the place and hard to remember cause none of the extensions were designed to work together from what I could tell.

What I don't get is why Vivaldi didn't code on top of Firefox, but I think it's because there are sites that work in chromium and don't in Firefox, and fail silently - and just like in IE6 days, they're sites like my parents retirement site, they can't NOT use them.

BananaTrifleViolin , 4 months ago

All browser companies monetise you to some extent. Even Firefox does this a bit (Paid deals make Google is the default search, and Amazon search is also paid to be included as a link for example).

However the big difference is the private companies like Vivaldi, Brave etc monetise your data more and less transparently, plus the entire Chromium ecosystem is basically under Google's control. Manifest 3 will not be restricted to Chrome, it is being built into the Chromium project and will end up in Chrome, Microsoft Edge, Vivaldi, Brave etc. Chromium is a trojan horse project, used to push Google's priorities and objectives across the web, not end users.

The only viable alternative is Firefox based browsers. I use Firefox itself (aware of it's compromises and using a whole host of extensions), but there are also forks and projects that strip even Firefox's compromises back - LibreWolf in particular. For all the flaws of the Mozilla foundation, it is transparent on what it does to keep the project going, and the independence of the project compared to chromium is hugely important. Note Firefox is also going to support Manifest V3 (so that extensions can continue to be cross-browser) BUT it is also keeping support for the key APIs that Google is removing (i.e. the ability for extensions to use the block webRequest API which is foundational to current Ad and privacy protection extensions).

Vivaldi is no different to other Chromium based broswers; it uses the exact same Google controlled code base, plus it is doing everything it can to monetise you. You are the product; all these companies are stealing and financially exploiting your data and we're all just handing it to them on a platter for free and thanking them for fucking us over.

JubilantJaguar , 4 months ago

All beautifully preached to the choir. Now: how to communicate all this to the unwashed masses who think the web and the internet and Chrome are all the same thing? Serious question.

lemmyreader , 4 months ago

Good one. I'd say it is too late already. USA big tech is almost everywhere, and countless people are addicted to USA big tech, especially on their phones, and do not ask critical questions anymore.

jmp242 , 4 months ago

I don't see any reason to think Vivaldi is trying to monetize it's users, it seems to have a lot of privacy features and the like. They strip out the chromium spying.

floofloof , 4 months ago

If they're honest then Vivaldi really sounds pretty good for privacy:

https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-business-model/

But they'd certainly win a lot more trust if they went open source.

driveway , 4 months ago

Putting Brave and Vivaldi in the same bucket is just Mozilla shilling.

umbrella , 4 months ago

why are people that allergic to firefox?

vivaldi is chrome with extra steps

jmp242 , 4 months ago

Mostly because the browsing experience IMO is much much worse with Firefox. I tried extensions to get functionality back, it made it worse - slower, buggy, extensions would stop being developed etc. I wish Firefox was better, I really do. But IME it's frozen functionality like it's 2010 or so. Like, they have tabs, who hoo. I really find save/restore, multi window control, tab stacks, sessions, workspaces, and easy UI config pretty important in day to day use. That said, I also think ads are a deal breaker, but I really wonder if this won't bring back some of the ad-blocking proxies you run locally or something.

Or, someone forks chromium to keep Manifest v2 or whatever.

driveway , 4 months ago

Vivaldi doesn't have to use v3, Brave won't. If Vivaldi does upgrade to v3, that should tell you something.

floofloof , 4 months ago

I use both Firefox and Chrome-based browsers and I haven't come across any major differences in functionality. What are all these things Chrome can do that Firefox can't?

umbrella , 4 months ago

those are all things that don't exist on most browsers without many extensions