Welcome to Incremental Social! Learn more about this project here!
Check out lemmyverse to find more communities to join from here!

13esq ,

If you're not paying for the product, you are the product.

WhatAmLemmy ,

And even when you pay for the product, you are the product, because capitalism requires infinite growth from a finite system.

prex ,

I assume AI is training off the content here for free.

rar ,

It's all federated, so it would be strange the bots didn't scrape anything off.

OmanMkII ,

I was curious if a robots.txt equivalent exists for AI training data, and there was some solid points here:

If I go to your writing, I read it & learn from it. Your writing influences my future writing. We've been okay with this as long as it's not a blatant forgery.

If a computer goes to your writing, it reads it & learns from it. Your writing influences its future writing. It seems we are not okay with this, even if it isn't blatant forgery.

[AI at the moment is] different because the company is re-using your material to create a product they are going to sell. I'm not sure if I believe that is so different than a human employee doing the same thing.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34324208

I still think we should have the ability to opt out like we do with search engines and webcrawlers, but if the algorithm works ideally and learns but does not recycle content, is it truly any different from a factory of workers pumping out clones of popular series on Amazon? I honestly don't know the answer to that.

Appoxo ,

Afaik the OpenAI bot may choose to ignore it? At least that's what another user claimed it does.

JohnEdwa ,
@JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz avatar

Robots.txt has been always ignored by some bots, it's just a guideline originally meant to prevent excessive bandwidth usage by search indexing bots and is entirely voluntary.

Archive.org bot for example has completely ignored it since 2017.

MossyFeathers ,

This is kinda my take on it. However, the way I see it is that the AI isn't intelligent enough yet to truly create something original. As such, right now AI is closer to being a tool than a being. Because of that, it somewhat bothers me that I'm being used to teach a tool. If I thought that companies like OpenAI were truly trying to create beings and not tools, then I'd feel differently.

It's kinda nuanced, but a being can voluntarily determine whether or not something is copyright infringing, understand why that might be an issue, and then decide whether or not to continue writing based on that. A tool can't really do that. You can try and add filters to a tool to avoid writing copy written text, but that will have flaws and holes in it. A being who understands what it's writing and what makes it plagiarism vs reference vs homage/inspiration/whatever is less likely to have those issues.

deweydecibel ,

The problem is not the technology, the problem is the businesses and the people behind them.

These tools were made with the explicit purpose of taking the content that they did not create, repurposing them, and creating a product. Throw all these conversation about intelligence and learning out the fucking window, what matters is what the thing does, and why it was created to do that thing.

Until we reach a point where there is some sort of AI out there that has any semblance of free will, and can choose not to learn if fed certain information, and choose not to respond to input given to it without being programmed to do not respond, then we are not talking about intelligence, we are talking about a tool. No matter how they dress it up.

Stop arguing about this on their terms, because they're gaslighting the fuck out of you.

Bishma ,
@Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Yes, but there's no contract to give them legal cover if anyone ever does anything about all the content they steal.

deweydecibel , (edited )

And ya know what? Frankly, if AI is going to harvest all this shit, I'd rather fuckers like spez couldn't get rich off it in the process. Granted I'm not happy the tech bros running these AI companies are getting rich with these fucking things, but I can at least take solace that, for Lemmy at least, there isn't some asshole middle man making bank off the work and words of users they never paid a dime to.

Genuinely, why does Sepz and Reddit deserve to make money off anything we posted? Why does any social media site? They make the site, pay for the servers, maintain the apps, sure, and they can get compensation for that, I don't see a problem there. But why does any social media company deserve to get rich when the only thing that makes their platform valuable is the people that post to it? Reddit didn't even have paid mods, the community did all the work on the content of that site, why in the fuck do we tolerate these assholes making profit off it like this?

Quadhammer ,

Intellectual property theft

prex ,

100%

General_Effort ,

This is sad to read because I agree with all of it (except the casual sexism).

why in the fuck do we tolerate these assholes making profit off it like this?

Look at this thread. People delete their posts on Reddit. Which means that they can no longer be scraped for free. Which means they are now exclusively available in Reddit's archive. It's not that people tolerate it. It's that the first instinct of people who don't tolerate it, is to make it worse. What can you do?

Buddahriffic ,

What do you mean? What legal cover do they need against what actions?

Bishma ,
@Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

If the EU (or any other governments) decide that AI can't legally train their models on information they don't own or license (I don't know how that would work legally but they talk about it), then this company that Reddit has sold access to could argue to lawmakers that they have license for all the content on Reddit. I don't know that it would hold up, but I suspect it's part of the company's perceived value in this Reddit deal.

Embarrassingskidmark ,

If they build an AI based on reddit content it will be the devil incarnate.

valkyre09 ,

Can’t wait to hear the fan fiction the AI bot generates

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

A devil incarnate that makes a lot of puns.

neptune ,

This

Pinecone ,

If you thought gpt4 was confidently incorrect wait until you see this next ai.

furzegulo ,

i stopped using reddit and deleted my accout and posts when they introduced those fucking nft-avatars and it seems that they've been going downhill ever since that.

Fake4000 OP ,

Those NFT things were just a bad move.

thantik ,

When you delete your account and posts now, unless you edit them first, all deleting them does is hide their visibility in the database. The post is still there.

furzegulo ,

well damn

AtmaJnana ,

they were headed downhill loooong before NFTs became a thing.

JigglypuffSeenFromAbove ,
@JigglypuffSeenFromAbove@lemmy.world avatar

Slightly unrelated question, but is there an easy way to delete all my Reddit posts and comments? I used the Nuke add-on in the past, but it doesn't work anymore.

I wanna delete my Reddit account, but I'd prefer to erase my history before doing that.

FeelThePower ,
@FeelThePower@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

back when I made my Lemmy account I used a tool called redact to masse edit my Reddit comments into gibberish and then after a few days of making sure it got them all, I deleted them all and then my account.

CaptPretentious ,

With their API changes I'm not sure.

This is what I used and was recommended during the great purge.

https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite

lvxferre ,
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

j0be's version of Power Delete Suite was already broken before the APIcalypse, as Reddit imposed a limit of 5s between edits. Pkolyvas' version will probably work better, if PDS still works at all.

6daemonbag ,

Dang I wish I knew that at the time. I had to run it many times before I was satisfied that my history was properly edited before deleting everything

JargonWagon ,

I used Redact. It seemed to work.

gnate ,

This userscript worked for me (in the last 24hrs):
https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/23605-reddit-history-sanitizer

LightDelaBlue ,
@LightDelaBlue@lemmy.world avatar

So nothing realy new after alls half reddit is repost bot .

Kbobabob ,

Lol, what do you think Lemmy is? There's a lot of posts on here directly scraped from Reddit by bots.

mellowheat ,

Well of course, that's the #1 reason why everyone stopped providing free-to-use APIs last year. Because AI companies were getting all that data for free via those APIs.

Hadriscus ,

oh, really

v4ld1z , (edited )
@v4ld1z@lemmy.zip avatar

I just Googled my reddit handle and it's appalling that I found websites on the internet that archived a bunch of my posts on there including pictures I posted. I'm not sure what I expected, but it's still kinda annoying. Even though I deleted my comments after editing them and deleting my entire account

Lojcs ,

That's been an issue for a long time. Fake "blogs" made of scraped reddit posts.

gapbetweenus ,

If user content belongs to the service provider, one would think that they are responsible for it.

darko8472 ,

Glad I deleted all of my content over there, then.

echo64 ,

This may shock you, but it's not deleted.

Fake4000 OP ,

Yeah. There was this guy who deleted his account but Reddit restored it. Apparently he was going to take them to court based on some GDPR article.

APassenger ,

They still have all the edit history. All editing does is show the last one. The servers would have every version.

skillissuer ,
@skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

this is explicitly illegal under GDPR

fuckwit_mcbumcrumble ,

That's not going to stop them.

skillissuer ,
@skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

but you can sue their ass over it

Ragnarok314159 ,

I attempted to delete all my posts using one of those nuke-Reddit scripts and my account got banned for it.

fne8w2ah ,

That's why spez the hurensohn "refreshed" the T&Cs very recently.

Wolpertinger ,
@Wolpertinger@sh.itjust.works avatar

So I need to run any comments I make to reddit by chatgpt before posting, it seems. I heard ai training ai leads to a poisoned data set.

General_Effort ,

Yeah, I heard that, too. Consider that people who don't like tech may not have very reliable knowledge of tech. Regardless, OAI would appreciate your business.

fishbone ,

For text, AI training AI wouldn't be all that great for giving data sets a little poison ivy rubdown, because at the end of the day, the message is still moderated by a non bot. I think a better way would be to write more unconventionally, but heavily contextual so that if specifics texts are ripped and tossed into the bot blender, it'll make no sense without the context alongside it.

Slang, edge case wording, and verbing non verbs would likely do a lot of heavy lifting in that department.

addie ,
@addie@feddit.uk avatar

Using LLMs for corporate communications - automatically-generated complaint responses, and the like - usually has swearing disabled, so if you want to fuck up their shit, be sure to express yourself with as many fucking swears as possible. Let's get that shit into those cunt's language models ASAP.

Fake4000 OP ,

Shit move from Reddit. Glad I jumped ship to lemmy.

Honestly, lemmy has less users compared to Reddit, yet you still get more engagement.

DarkNightoftheSoul , (edited )
@DarkNightoftheSoul@mander.xyz avatar

The only engagement you actually get is on super-niche subreddits. Other than that, the "engagement" you get on reddit is largely indistinguishable from bot traffic.

Haagel ,

💍 Will you marry me?

DarkNightoftheSoul ,
@DarkNightoftheSoul@mander.xyz avatar

Can you pass a capcha?

wise_pancake ,

Are you implying I can’t pick out bridges or motorcycles? I definitely can, but I won’t do it for you as some kind of sick parlor trick.

Speaking of tricks, did you know there are singles in your area!

DarkNightoftheSoul ,
@DarkNightoftheSoul@mander.xyz avatar

Sexy singles- In my area? Are there any weird tricks they don't want me to know? Just one would probably work.

Lemminary ,

They can make entire hot dogs disappear! Crazy, right?

One bite at a time, you sickos. Omg, you pervs.

balancedchaos ,

...didn't have to be the mouth. I'm still impressed.

VubDapple ,

You just engaged.

AbidanYre ,

Or admitted to being a bot.

Spacemanspliff ,

This isn't Reddit though.

AbidanYre ,

I feel like that comment was edited to be less ambiguous.

DarkNightoftheSoul ,
@DarkNightoftheSoul@mander.xyz avatar

I added "on reddit" when I saw people were misunderstanding me.

rebelsimile ,

I come to Lemmy to read threads of people arguing about whether or not they’re talking to each other at all. This is doing it for me.

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@startrek.website avatar

Your stipud ! (both sic and /s btw) -> there, now you don't have to go back to Reddit to recall the nostalgia, you are ... welcome, I guess?:-D

Lemminary ,

Ahhh, that's the stuff. 🤤 Do it again.

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@startrek.website avatar

Your (sic) WRONG!

About EVRRTYHIGN! (sic)

I may know nothing myself, but I still have an opinion and will share it with you, consent be damned!

Why I... [Reddit cap exceeded, please deposit $10 to continue conversation].

sigmaklimgrindset ,
@sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz avatar

👆this

(Did that do it?)

EatATaco ,

You are glad that you jumped to where AI companies can get the information for free, but are mad at Reddit for getting paid for it.

I can't make any sense of this.

grue ,

It's like the difference between volunteering and being forced to do community service.

EatATaco ,

In neither case are you forced to do anything so this doesn't make any sense either.

TORFdot0 ,

The difference is that Lemmy admins across the fediverse aren’t making the user experience worse so they can sell the data to corporations for LLM training

EatATaco ,

So it's really that the user experience is getting worse. Feeding ai has nothing to do with it.

ultra ,

I'd rather have AI companies have my data for free than reddshit gettong paid for it

tacofox ,

First of all, tacos are friends, not food..

Secondly, I think it’s more important what they did to achieve this goal, locking down the API behind a paywall was their way of creating value in their data. They knew then that it would be too expensive for independent developers to pay for but didn’t care. They knew the money would be coming AI data brokers.

AtariDump ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/343450c3-1135-4d70-b27c-d572c5c4d301.jpeg

Quadhammer ,

If gollum and Steve Buscemi had a secret baby

rottingleaf ,

TBF for many things I write on the Web, I'd actually want to have a bot that writes them instead of me.

NigelFrobisher ,

Just going to replace all my old posts with AI generated poison data.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • technology@lemmy.world
  • random
  • incremental_games
  • meta
  • All magazines
    •