I would argue that it’s the nature of having a mature and complex product. Adding new stuff is hard because you have a lot of legacy code / UX that you have to accommodate for. You need to move slower because it’s easier to break stuff in a more mature product.
I’d also argue that Apple and Google’s research teams are generally hearing the similar stuff out of their end users, so it’s to be expected that both companies are going to prioritize similar functionality.
That was my experience when I’ve worked on massive products. The complexity of the product impacts development speed, and shared understandings of user desires results in similar feature sets between competitors.
Exactly. You get it. At the end of the day they are all going to get many of the same features.
They both copy from webOS anyway, at the end of the day. That webOS from Palm was way ahead at the time but lacked the hardware and Carrier support needed to succeed.
I hear you, but also I would be shocked if Apple were to roll this out and it be an absolutely terrible experience. Like their MO is “luxury” products with “premium” experiences, it would not be fitting of the brand to have a piece of crap experience on their flagship announcement.
I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.
You might wanna check with siri on that. Apple regularly failed at that even under the leadership of Jobs. And Tim Cook is no Steve Jobs. It's already looking like it's going to be just standard remote chat GPT. Hallucinations and all.
Apple Maps was bad, yes. But they had their hand forced. Google started charging for their API (enough to cripple their app), and they had very little time to create one of their own.
That’s not happening here. No one is forcing their hand. If they didn’t release an updated Siri this year, nothing would happen.
Microsoft's penchant for making up names for thing that already have names is neither here nor there. It is an LLM, in fact its already twice as large as chatGPT2 (1.5B params).
I do think it's a useful distinction considering open models can be more than 100B+ nowdays and GPT4 is rumored to be 1.7T params. Plus this class of models are far more likely to be on-device.
You would be surprised. If you haven’t tried to run a LLM on Apple silicon, it’s pretty snappy but like all others, RAM can be a significantly limiting factor unless the model is trimmed down to do very specific things to reduce the size.
Did I understand correctly that this is only going to be in the iPhone 15 pro? Because that’s a lot more expensive than a pixel, more than I’d ever spend on a phone tbh.
We went hiking and tried calling emergency services but my friend's 14 pro couldn't get any signal for some reason. Idk what was wrong, me and my friend with pixels had no issues though.
Satellite messaging is already available in Android 15 beta, and the LLM in the device will only be for iPhone 15 Pro and above, so most iPhone users will not be able to use it.
Yeah I guess it doesn't allow access to those things yet although I don't see why they couldn't add that in a future release. The APIs for that already exist.
I'm an android user but honestly bored of hearing this shit every single year. "Android already does that" yeah, we know. It's like having a friend that is constantly trying to one-up you, or trying to steal attention away from you at your own birthday party.
Honestly who gives a shit, we are talking about phone OSes. I dont have a strong enough opinion about any of this to care which of them does what first. Use what you like and move on mentally
I use Apple because it’s easier to manage a grandma and a daughter. Android is great if you’re technologically adept and can install a custom ROM, but I don’t want that freedom for my “users”. Grandma used to have an Android phone for years. I’d have to clean that thing out every few months because she would just click on shit. I switched her to iPhone and now when I check, there’s far less nonsense going on. It’s just easier to be the family admin this way. There are numerous other things that Android can also do, better, and for free, but at the cost of one’s time. It’s a trade off I’m willing to make. I reject the notion Apple is outright inferior; by which criteria? It’s also not about looking cool. Everyone has smartphones and they’re not special like they may have been in the 2000s. They’re the most commodified computer people use around the world. There’s no phone that makes you cool regardless of brand. It’s a fucking phone.
I would say the days of needing to flash ROMS is over, and Android is much more user friendly than it used to be. Especially if you're on Pixel or Galaxy phones. My Mom, who's almost 70, uses a Galaxy 21 FE, and loves it.
Not sure about the parental controls, etc that might help with keeping an eye on loved ones though.
Satellite messaging is already available in Android 15 beta, and the LLM in the device will only be for iPhone 15 Pro and above, so most iPhone users will not be able to use it.
I think Pixel 8 and 8a do too, or at least are capable, since they're the same chip. I'd check, but I put GrapheneOS on my phone so I don't have all of the Google stuff.
Satellite messaging is already available in Android 15 beta
Perhaps in software, but I don't think there is a current phone that has the hardware to take advantage. For now, this is essentially an Apple only feature. It's a pretty good bet we are going to see some flagships released with it in the next year though.
And? How many android devices can you name that actually support satellite messaging today? When the feature DOES come on the android side, I imagine it is going to probably be flagship devices as well. Seems to be a silly thing to call Apple out for.
I know that Pixel 7's and above support it. There are Reddit posts showing they have the feature already. Satellite messaging is just using standard 4G/LTE from Starlink. I wouldn't be surprised if this is only an OS update away for most newer phones.
Correct. It needs hardware and will only be on flagships, if the OEM includes it..
Another nice feature on the latest iPhone is the UWB chip egg even the older models have but now you can find another iPhone 15 user in a crowd if they share their location. The UWB chip will guide you right to them
I've wanted something like this for at least a decade for when my wife and I get separated in the Mall so that instead of calling her to see where she is (and she often doesn't hear it ringing) I'd be able to just use the phone to lead me to her... Pretty useful in real life. And it also works for your misplaced tracker tile, air pods, iPad etc
Android 15 beta... so it'll be available on phones, out of the box, without anyone having to build/install a custom, on phones actual normal humans buy in about 2030 then.
Yes, in fact that is the only kind of ai i would ever use and entrust my data to. Not the apple one, but an open source model that is running only on my device and answering only to me; using the data I provide only for my interests? That one I would use.
It wasn’t a software issue, but a human issue. People got scammed and gave their logins away.
This system is built so that nobody can access it and they’ve went to extreme lengths to make it so. It’s also available for auditing, it hardware and software.
“It’s a very thoughtful design. Indeed, if you gave an excellent team a huge pile of money and told them to build the best “private” cloud in the world, it would probably look like this.”
Matthew D Green, cryptography teacher at Josh Hopkins
LLM is AI correct? If my phone is going to do AI at all, I prefer it be done on device for sure. For privacy reasons if nothing else. But it's not anything I've really looked into. I have the S24 and the only AI feature I use is the Circle to search... which I don't consider to be AI.
LLM is a form of AI, specifically the text AIs like ChatGPT that have suddenly made "AI" a dinner table term. AI in some form or another is almost definitely being used in your device - even for things like filling in gaps in low-quality voice calls, and probably has been for a while. But the problem is that unlike those "old" AIs, LLMs require some significant power to run, so running them on phones will probably require meaningful trade-offs. But the increased security is also a meaningful benefit.
As much as I hate apple and google, I want a future where all these can be done locally without massive servers and sending all data to cloud .
Apple clearly have a edge over google in that regards.
Ah, you mean like the sync that Palm OS used to have? Yup, that was neat, and I'm still waiting for Android to pick up some of the neat features from back then.
I miss palm OS. I think it had some undeniable jank but it also had great features and a bit of “charm”. I’m pretty sure I still remember most of the Graffiti alphabet!
I totally bought a Palm off eBay few months ago. It's been fun to use Palm OS 5 again. I got a model that actually has WiFi, which was also interesting to set up a AP that was compatible with it.
One I got had a dead battery, ordered a new one, it was so much nicer to open the old tech and replace the battery. Just screw and little solder. No glue and impossible small stuff to work with.
Look into the past , what a huge server does now a small SBC can do now . In 10 years what chatgot runs in cloud could potentially be running in a smartphone
My last brand new Pixel phone had debug strings in the user interface and the UI was not responsive. It’s the daily annoyances and details that made me get an iPhone. Comparisons have been stupid since the beginning of smartphones.
Looks like it's been available on some android devices for at least a month. I don't know about free though, I think it depends on your carrier. I know T-Mobile has been talking about supporting it using Starlink satellites.
For me the importance is that it’s free - I wouldn’t even pay $5 a month for a service that I’d use in very unlikely situations probably once or twice a year.
They said it’s free for 2 years with any new purchase of iPhone since iPhone 14; and now they’ve extended it for 1 more year. No one has had to pay for any of it yet - and it’s unknown if/when/how it’ll be a paid service
I used to unlock my desktop with my face a long time ago (20 years or so)... No clue when it came to mobile devices, I could totally see Apple bringing that to mobile first.
I wholeheartedly agree, I thought it was cool until I realized the security concerns. FDE and pass phrases only please. If only someone could convince more companies to allow proper TOTP instead of wanting you to use their proprietary authenticator.
Not anymore. That was true for a few years but iOS has definitely overtaken Android. Plus when you include the entire Apple devices ecosystem, Arcade, TV+, Homepod, Continuity etc iOS FAR, FAR outstrips Android.
Android is a stand alone device but iPhone is one piece in a mosaic of devices and services.
This is why now, after the last 4 years on Android, I'm switching back to iPhone.
Plus the hardware and cameras on budget Android devices are shit and I'm tried of paying for shit.
The Snapdragon 695 came out 3+ years ago and yet Qualcomm just released this year the Snapdragon 6s gen 3, which is .... the 695 with a slightly higher clock speed... 🤦
For €300 - €550 they keep selling us the same junk with a different name and colour and I'm done with that bs.
As someone that flips between Samsung and iPhone they all are selling us the same shit every year. Smartphones in general have gotten stale. I can’t remember anything in the last 5 years that anyone has announced that made me think I have to upgrade my device. Maybe it’s just me but the tech seems boring now.
Phone tech is really boring. Almost everything looks the same, they are all x% faster than last year's model which still does everything perfectly fine. In terms of hardware, the phone has kinda reached the optimal place.
I'm not the target audience for bleeding edge phones though. I take photos, listen to music(using Bluetooth and wired headphones), browse the web and message people. I don't really play games or use it for work.
By far the most interesting thing to me is foldable phones. I really like the idea of a flip phone, but I don't think it would be too happy sitting in my sweaty pocket while I cycle.
Foldable phones are the dumbest shit. Only for people who like to spend too much money on an everyday object. It's introducing an unnecessary potential point of failure.
Same, but I don't really take pictures either, despite having arguably the best smartphone camera on the market (Pixel 8). I bought my phone because it has 7 years of updates, and I got a good deal on a used one.
So yeah, smartphones really aren't my thing. If it browses the web, makes texts and calls, and works with my bluetooth headphones, I'm happy. I don't need a big screen (I even "downgraded" a bit in screen size) and I'd prefer no selfie cam (almost never use it for video calls), but I work with what I've got to choose from.
What's more far ahead than an ecosystem that you can't leave without replacing all devices because they work poorly with anything other than Apple. If you don't like all their products or Apple makes changes that you disagree with then sucks to be you, I guess.
Exactly. I have a work Macbook Pro, which I honestly dislike, and my wife has an iPhone and iPad (iPad is for drawing because the Apple pencil is better than alternatives). My wife won't use an Apple computer because her games don't work (mostly Lost Ark, but also others), I won't use one because I much prefer Linux, and we don't want yet another streaming service.
So Apple gets a big "meh" from me. It's better than Windows for me, so I guess there's that, but I'm really not interested in an "ecosystem."
Aren't wacoms PC-accessories? She wants an independent tablet for drawing at the park and whatnot.
She has a wacom tablet for home though, but she's never gotten the hang of it. Maybe I'll push her to try again now that she's more familiar with digital art.
There's the MobileStudio Pro and Wacom is hardly the only brand. There's also the Huion Kamvas Studio. Both are cheaper than an iPad Pro and both come in multiple sizes. I'm not sure about Huion but Wacom has had rotating barrel sensors on the pen for almost a decade.
That is the catch. I agree that there is lock in, I've experienced that, but in return you get unparalleled interconnectivity.
Plus you get 5+ years OS updates on iPhone and iPad Vs 2-3 years on Android, budget Android. And for the money, the cameras will be better than any budget Android and the CPU will be better for gaming. Plus there is a world of accessories you just don't get with Android.
As cool as it is to have split screen or an SD card on my phone, when I need to take a picture with friends/family and they always come out terribly because all Android's under €750 have shit cameras, then none of that matters. An experience I recently had. We tried 3 android phones and in the end the friend with an iPhone got the best shot and that one was shared on the group.
Super embarrassing for Android that 3 different phones tried to get a decent semi low light photo and couldn't but a year's old iPhone got a great shot with 1 click.
Except the iPhone isn't junk - best in class CPU, best in class cameras, best in class accessories, magsafe, best in class security(FaceID), best in class messaging with iMessage, best in class emoji/animoji/memoji, best in class OS updates, busy in class animations and app design, best in class post sales service, best in class devices ecosystem....
iPhones haven’t had best in class cameras in years. One of the pain points of moving to iPhone was giving up the superior camera experience of Google pixels and Samsung phones.
Not at all. iPhones are very capable point and shoot camera phones, but even at a more budget price point iPhone cameras haven’t been best in class in at least 5 or 6 years.
The pixel 5-6 were like $600 phones with unmatched cameras and even better camera software. The modern non-pro pixels like the 7 and 8 also beat out all but the pro max models of recent iPhones.
Similar to that the Samsung fan edition phones were beating out iPhone cameras at a $600 price point brand new.
That isn’t to say there’s anything wrong with iPhone cameras, but they’re not nearly the best either. Even at lower price points. Like it’s becoming quite clear that you are just saying things at this point because you really like iPhones. But almost none of the things you claim are remotely true.
You are in the US so pixels are widely available and cheap. As is the FE series.
Where I live, outside the US, the Pixel is not sold nor will Google let you buy it. So pixel is a no go.
The Fan Edition Samsung costs virtually the same as the regular edition where I live, if you can find an FE. It costs €700+...
99% of our population can only afford €250-300 phones. €700 is out of reach unless you're single, hehe a great job and still live with mum and dad. Or you are the 1%.
So at that price ALL the android cameras are shit, shit, shit.
So, if I import from the UK a used iPhone 12 it will cost about €350. At that price NOTHING can touch it below €700.
Everything below €700 is Chinese cheapie and Samsung cheapie, also known as crap phones.
I don't get it. I live in Germany and own a pixel 7 pro. I had no trouble buying it. In fact, I just bought one for my wife. Decided I don't need the pixel 8 because the 7 pro works like a charm. Where do you live that you can't buy Pixels?
If you want good photos, buy a real camera with a good lens and learn to manipulate raw files. Smartphone pictures will only look good on a tiny screen. The amount of postprocessing that takes place without any of your input makes the photos look bland. That said, android phones do have the better hardware and by saving the raw files you at least get to develop the pictures yourself, the way you want it, sort of.
I have a great pocket camera but it's not practical to carry it wherever I go. Most photos are taken spontaneously and for that reason you want a great camera on your smartphone.
I don't know about CPUs, but that's kind of a non-issue as phones are very fast anyway, even the low-budget ones. I'll bet there are android phones with higher performance though.
face unlock has got to be the dumbest way to secure your phone. All one has to do is point the damn thing at your face and it's unlocked
MagSafe is a weird thing to list. Wireless charging kind of makes it redundant, right? Plus there are aftermarket usb-c adapters to have the exact same thing.
no one uses iMessage outside of the USA
emojis? Seriously?
I'll give you the updates one, it's easier to update hardware that's trapped in a walled garden
animations?
iOS has some very high quality apps, I'll give you that one too
All of the above doesn't really matter though. I have an iPhone for work and I just hate the user interface. It's just very inefficient and clunky. The worst thing is how it's so difficult to get some real ad blocking going. Also, the feeling of being trapped in their ecosystem has an almost claustrophobic effect on me.
Google sucks a big dick too however, just like the internet itself does. I'm really contemplating on going back to a feature phone soon.
Oh no most definitely. Since I’ve been using iOS (IOS 15) every update is just playing catchup on Android features. It’s actually why I finally switched from Android to iOS. iPhones have abandoned so much of their own design philosophy in favor of Androids, that iOS is practically just another flavor of Android like Samsungs or Huaweis. The friction to switch between phones has never been lower. I did however have to wait for iPhones to finally bring decent refresh rates to iOS before switching (above 60hz).
Good for Android, now if they’d only implement all of the Apple-only features that create the lock-in appeal then maybe they’ll get somewhere. When my Pixel Buds flow seamlessly from device to device to the third and fourth device then maybe we’ll talk
My SO has current gen Pixel devices all around and it’s yet to materialize. To my mind, Google could sync Bluetooth pairing info across all Android devices if they put their minds to it. But even if they did, they would need to work with Microsoft and other vendors to get the kind of ambiguity that would compete with Apple’s product line. As it stands, if you buy the Apple product you get the best hardware and the software compliment is five years ahead than the competition. Google and Microsoft need to leapfrog
I have the Pixel Buds Pro and they kinda do that, but yeah not very well. I have them paired to my phone and my laptop, and sometimes randomly they'll silently disconnect from my laptop and permanently pause whatever I was watching if my phone plays a notification. I can't fix it until I disconnect from and reconnect to my laptop multiple times.
One time I was watching a video on my laptop and they randomly connected to my desktop! I hadn't used them on my desktop in at least a year, until then!
All in all, they can flow seamlessly, but it's 60/40 on if it works properly
At least the noise cancelling and passthrough are fun to mess with
How many devices do you switch between? For me, it’s phone, tablet, two laptops and my watch. I think that the Pixel Buds can switch between two without needing a re-pair. Meanwhile, I can stream my Apple TV audio to my AirPods as they’re also an audio source! Even if Google released basic support for this today, they still wouldn’t be able to fully catch up because they have no truly realized desktop/laptop OS so I’d live in a mixed ecosystem.
I have them paired to a few things, but only ever use them on my phone and laptop. That's why I was so confused when it connected to my desktop, since it was last paired and actually used a long time ago.
I guess it's a complicated issue for me, since they're paired with more than 2 things but only ever connected to 2 things
Exactly. Also memoji on Android would be nice as well as the better emoji content on iPhones..
The bedtime mode on iPhone is also very cool as well as the ability to set your contact photo which other iPhone users will see when they call you.
Plus I think Apple have done a better job with widgets because they look nicer and are stackable.
Imo as an android user, android has been neglected by Google for a while and apart from Samsung no other OEM's are adding for software to rival Apple.
Which is one of many reasons why I'll be switching back to iPhone. I see more and better user features being added to iOS.
The only thing Google has done with android lately is Material You, and it's not as rich as apples customisation. And circle to search is a stupid feature which only benefits Google more than the user.
I mean Android, and Samsung in particular, borrow from Apple all the time as well. Hell Samsung frequently bad mouths Apples for the anti-consumer choices one year then follows suit and does the same thing in a year or 2 themselves.
These kinds of takes are not the flex some seem to think they are in my opinion.
Which one is bog standard? Samsung has over 12 different models on production that range from 150$ to 1900$, including two models with folding screens. Apple has 3 4 almost identical phones, they're all overpriced hardware.
Better? The Apple hardware is always significantly worse than competition in the same price class. Most of the price of an iPhone goes to their excessive marketing and record profits, so they have to cut costs on hardware
You mean to say that the accidentally bendy phone is better than the actually foldable phone? Or that the accidentally bendy tablet is better than the tablet that is almost 20% larger, equally thin but somehow doesn't bend?
So what you're saying is, if you want advanced phone features sooner buy an Android, if you want to be subjected to dodgy business practices sooner buy an Apple
To be honest as an Android user, if Apple makes their phone less locked down and give more affordable choices for phones I may try an iPhone, as I am a bit fed up with Android, and there are no other real alternatives.
Locked to trust them. I have been a long time iPhone user. Is by far the best mobile OS. Is overpriced , yes and since at this point of my life give more fucks , next one would be whatever good crap I can get.
You realize that Android being too open is a major reason for why it sucks and iOS being more locked down is precisely how they avoided going the same way, right?
I'm happy with GrapheneOS on my Google Pixel. It's basically Android without the Google crap. It's not for everyone though.
That said, I'd really like a third option. iOS is too locked down, Android phones have short support cycles (getting better, and is a huge reason why I picked Pixel), and Linux phones have fundamental hardware and software issues. I'm sad Microsoft, Palm, and Blackberry all gave up, there were interesting things happening in the mobile space back then.
Same. I thought it would be a bigger change, but it turns out I only need 5-6 apps from the Play store, and 3 need Google Play services. I only need those periodically, so I leave them in a separate profile.
My main profile has a bunch of F-Droid apps and a few manually side-loaded that update themselves. It's pretty nice! I have also disabled most permissions on most apps, far more than stock Android lets me do (esp. sensors permission).
It's pretty much what I want from Android. There are a handful of things I wish it did (I like shaking the phone on my Moto to get the flashlight), but all in all it's what I expect from Android. I still want a Linux phone though.
I use Tasker to handle stuff like shaking for a light, enabling certain DND settings, etc.
I would love a phone that could dock and be a desktop replacement, I'm fine with using moonlight or something else to reach back to a server for games or bigger lifts than my phone can handle.
Cool, I'll have to play with Tasker. I just got it recently and I think I have all my data synced over, but I haven't gotten too far in customization.
BTW, do you know of anything like Niagara launcher? I liked that one quite a bit, but I didn't find anything FOSS to replace it. The default is okay, I just want something that only lists a handful of apps to reduce clutter.
I just use the default one and put a couple folders on the home screen (one for stores, one for games, one for media, one for utility), then a couple widgets on the next screen over.
Are persistent notifications still a requirement for background apps, such as Signal? One of the reasons I switched to CalyxOS. Not the Signal persistent notification specifically, but it, in combination with all the others I needed running in the BG, made it very difficult to not miss new notifications. I like CalyxOS just fine, but I agree with you on GrapheneOS. I was very excited that it was exactly as I've always wanted android to be (but wasn't), except for those persistent notifications.
I haven't had to do anything special for signal, Home Assistant has some issues with permissions and not always reporting back if its on in the background. Still trying to figure out why its fine on mine but not on my son's phone.
The fine tuned controls for things like network access, storage and contact scopes, etc. are just amazing.
You don't have a persistent (albeit silent) notification for Signal and still receive push notifications? If so, my next OS may just be GOS.
The fine tuned controls are different than stock android? I thought GOS doesn't alter the stock experience (more than is required to decrapify the OS)?
No, the only persistent notification I have to put up with is Tasker.
I honestly can say how far from stock it is because I have no clue when the last time I saw unadulterated Android (if ever lol), but it doesn't have a lot of crap added to it.
That's really great to hear. I'm currently on CalyxOS and, besides the Google crap added to stock, it's very close to the last time I used stock (granted, it's been a hot minute). Next phone will likely be GrapheneOS, as I believe my posture has shifted since I decided on CalyxOS, and the lack of persistent notifications for background tasks (such as Signal) was the main deterrent that allowed me to settle into a more relaxed posture.
I can't afford a new one so I'm looking at used IPhone's to get. Because Apple tends to support them for 5+ years, I still should get at least 2 years OS updates with a used one.
Lifelong iOS hater who moved to iOS 2 years ago here. They're different strokes for different folks.
If you're like I used to be, get an Android! Flash a custom ROM on it! All the freedom is amazing.
Now I have an iPhone. It may even lack some features Android has. It gets them slower. But the experience is ridiculously polished and consistent. This is a device I can't have fail on me.
I still use Linux on my gaming PC and one of my work laptops. I love it. I love fiddling with things. I just want my phone to be an appliance like my fridge now. I buy it and forget it for the next few years.
Sometimes I miss tinkering on my android phone, but I just get my fix handled with the homelab and keep my iPhone nice and stable. I wish it wouldn’t take lawmakers to get things like usb c and rcs, but hey still getting it done.
My second work phone is an iPhone, so I'm a lifelong iOS hater but I've had a few generations of them. Let me tell you these things crash all the time, it is only slightly better at covering for itself.
I'd say a good negative use case really fits in the "reliability" category. So often at work, coders expect everything to always succeed, and have no thought towards what happens if one cog ever falls out of place; but good systems can react well or even help you get to what you generally need.
I mean, if you spent the kind of scratch on an android phone you would on an iPhone and then not fuck around with it, you'd have a similar experience on Android.
Years ago I used to flash roms and generally tinker until I decided I needed my phone to be stable and stopped. My Note 20 is polished and stable, no complaints.
My wife has always had iPhones. I've used both and find iOS frustrating. These days, unless you're scraping the bottom of the barrel, it's mostly about comfort and preference.
I've done that once. Then I made the mistake of updating past the Android version it came with. Suddenly it was no better than most of the cheap androids I'd owned before that. It was the Oneplus 7 Pro and it just started lagging like hell 2 years in.
I'm now 2 years into my iPhone 13 mini, have also kept up with software updates and it hasn't slowed down at all.
