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fluckx ,

It enticed me to start gaming on Linux.
So its definitely doing some enticing

delirium ,
@delirium@lemmy.world avatar

I thought I was alone in this lol

Win11 literally made me rage uninstall it after I got mad trying to remove all bloatware and then it showed me onedrive ad

isthingoneventhis ,

What was your experience switching over to Linux and getting it set up for gaming?

Toribor ,
@Toribor@corndog.social avatar

If you primarily game using Steam then it's easier than ever on most popular distros. Biggest hassle is likely still GPU drivers. I've never had any issues there but depending on what card you have you may be better off with either proprietary or FOSS drivers depending on what your distro of choice likes to provide by default. After that most games tend to just work, a handful may require you to pick a beta version of proton or something.

If you want to try it and don't want to do a lot of tinkering check out PopOS. It's probably the friendliest distro for gaming out of the box.

CallMeButtLove ,

I've heard a lot of people reference PopOS and Garuda as of the last few months but I've never heard of them. When you say popular distros I immediately think Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, Suse, etc. Does your comment include those as well or when you say popular do you mean "popular for gaming"? Also how is the Linux support for external controllers?

To be fair outside of Proxmox and some Debian containers with Docker I haven't spent much time in the Linux space for the last 7 or 8 years. I'm thinking about finally making the switch.

Toribor , (edited )
@Toribor@corndog.social avatar

Pop_OS is based on Ubuntu. It's developed by System76 which sells linux laptops that run their distro by default so it's very well maintained and polished.

It's a popular recommendation specifically for people looking out to try gaming on Linux because there are specific features built in like performance improvements for gaming and some gaming-specific packages whereas Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora and OpenSuse are generally designed to be a general purpose distro. Pop_OS delivers packages as flatpacks by default as opposed to Ubuntu's snaps which are a bit controversial and also uses their Cosmic desktop environment by default (though as far as I know gnome, kde, xfce, etc all still work fine if you have a preference).

Mostly I recommend Pop_OS for people that are new to Linux, don't know about why they might prefer one distro over another, and want to try it out with the minimal amount of hassle. If you aren't gaming Pop_OS is still great but that's one of it's selling points.

erwan ,

Popular distributions are the one you're thinking about.

Some distributions advertise themselves as "gaming oriented" but you don't need those, generalist distributions work just as well for gaming.

CalcProgrammer1 ,
@CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.ml avatar

Driver installation is really only a hassle for NVIDIA users. AMD and Intel GPUs simply work out of the box on most Linux distros these days (with the main issues being related to using slow moving distros that lack support for the newest hardware). Use a fast moving distro such as Arch and you likely won't have any issues even with recent GPUs. Hopefully NVK will make the situation for NVIDIA cards better too, been testing it on my laptop and it's starting to be viable for gaming.

Sanctus ,
@Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

It sucks ass. I actually returned my gaming desktop to W11 recently because I suck and my games just stopped launching. Never buying nvidia again, building a new desktop right now to get away from windows again.

CalcProgrammer1 ,
@CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.ml avatar

Yeah, building a new PC without NVIDIA or at least swapping your GPU really is the best solution. The past two years I've run an Intel Arc A770 which was rough at first because the drivers were brand new but has been solid for over a year now and then in February or so I upgraded to an AMD Radeon RX 7800XT which has been absolutely amazing with my 4K 144Hz display. My setup before that was a 1080Ti and it was never an enjoyable experience on Linux and I usually gamed on Win10 on it. I haven't really touched Windows other than a small handful of times on the A770 or 7800XT as Linux runs great on them.

Sanctus ,
@Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

How is the Intel card? I'm eyeing it heavily and debating on a hold out for the battlemage.

CalcProgrammer1 ,
@CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.ml avatar

Pretty good for the price! I was using it woth a 144Hz 1440p monitor for at least a year and played mostly Overwatch and CSGO/CS2. It does pretty well and Mesa support/performance for it has gotten pretty good. I still use that build (the A770 paired with a Ryzen 9 3950X) for LAN parties and with my TV and it is a fine GPU. It wasn't handling 4K 144Hz too well especially on more demanding titles which is why I ended up getting the 7800XT. I'm definitely excited for Battlemage cards.

megabyteX ,

Arch?!? lol. Terrible advice for a newbie. You are one update away from fscking your system. Better go Fedora/Nobara way. The kernel and drivers will be updated frequently enough. Also, no, propiertary NVIDIA driver installation is not a hassle, Ubuntu/Manjaro and some other friends literally have "wizards" that let you click->click->next the driver.

femtech ,

Base Ubuntu with the non snap version of steam has been great. I only play a few games, helldivers, some rouglites, and apex. The thing I miss with windows is HDR and auto HDR. HDR will be added in plasma 6 but I had issues with it on KDE Neon but once it's on a stable build it will be good.

ArachnidMania , (edited )

Not the original poster, but my experience was fairly smooth. I had minor issues with wifi drivers, and I got a new GPU that had some driver issues because it was pretty recently released (I guess the open source drivers didn’t have time to be updated?).
In terms of actual gaming, basically no issues. I mainly use steam and proton has been bliss, I’ve bought multiple games without even checking compatibility, and it just works. To my knowledge there is only one old game where the multiplayer doesn’t work, but everything else has been seamless.
Mint cinnamon is what I’m currently running.

Statlerwaldorf ,

I switched over from Win10 to PopOS! about a month ago. It hasn't been 100% painless but it's leaps and bounds better than the last time I tried to switch 5-10 years ago. For reference I'm in an AMD CPU and Nvidia GPU, NVME drives for both the system and game drives, SATA for a data drive, NAS for media. I've only reinstalled once because I broke everything tinkering with different desktop environments, but it was an easy recovery with the install media.

All the correct drivers were installed from the get go. I managed to overwrite my cloud save for Horizon Forbidden West because of an issue mounting my game drive and mapping the correct install location in Steam, but that was 90% on me because I rejected the idea of making a backup copy of the files because "I know what I'm doing". I ended up wiping my game drive entirely and reformatting it as EXT4 and haven't had any problems since - the drive was NTFS before and had a handful of games already installed from Windows.

A couple games require finding the right Proton version to run it, but GE works flawlessly for most things I've tried. Everything has run as fast or faster than in Windows with the exception of WH4K: Darktide. There's some microsecond delay in there somewhere that I couldn't pin down. Didn't seem to be video or network related. It's the kind of thing that I bet I wouldn't notice if it were my first time playing the game, but since I've got a couple hundred hours in it, it is just enough to throw me off and make me feel slightly drunk.

fluckx ,

The main setup went smooth. I can recommend nobara which is what I used. I tried garuda as well, but it wasn't my style. Personal preference, no hate :).

Most steam games work pretty good ( see protondb ).
( make sure to set your steam settings > compatibility to all games ).

Any game with invasive anti-cheat will likely not work. LoL and valorant come to mind. I think some of the cs2 ones like faceit won't work on Linux. But standard cs2 and competitive work fine.

Battle.net gave me some issues on lutris until I forced it to proton.

Overall I've had a good experience. Sometimes a weird issue if I alt tab ( hots ) that it comes back super tiny. I worked around it by running it windowed fullscreen.

Overall I've no regrets so far. I installed nobara and it's quite user friendly. I've never used a fedora distro before ( more extensive experience with xubuntu/Ubuntu/pop ).

Helldivers 2, heroes of the storm and ff crisis core worked flawlessly.

Hots needs to run full screen ( windowed ) or alt-tab will make the screen tiny for some reason.

So far: no regrets.

When you first play a game it needs to compile the shaders first. So on your initial game there's a few minutes ramp up time. But any next times you start the game should be fine.

BReel ,

Thank you for mentioning hots, because that’s like the ONE steam game I couldn’t live without. Good to know it’s possible, even if I have to play true full screen vs windowed.

fluckx ,

For hots: install lutris through the nobara app store.
Start it and leave it for a few minutes while you run other updates or something ( only the very first time ).

Go to the settings/preferences, ( three dots top right ), click runners, scroll all the way down to wine.

Click the cog and change the runtime from wine-.... to proton-GE. Thrn you can just install the battle.net app through lutris. From the battle.net app you can install hots.

Using the built in wine-.... Runtime I got errors like missing Microsoft arial or unable to validate certificate.

with proton it just instantly worked.

You can also add the battle.net installer as an external steam app and run/install it that way. The only downside would be that you can't play a steam game AND have bnet running ( which you can through lutris ).

Exiting battle.net doesn't seem to be enough to stop lutris running it. So you might have to click the stop button in lutris if you want to restart it.

Battle.net is a bit wonky. But once you've got it IP and running it's okay.

BReel ,

Damn appreciate the details. I’ll def give it a go!

isthingoneventhis ,

I have an older GPU (rx 470) and I play games that probably aren't super new so my main concerns were mainly my tech literacy and fear of fucking something up xD

fluckx ,

I didn't really do any CLI commands on nobara. So it's pretty straightforward. I guess the best experience might be with AMD.

I'm running a ryzen 7 and gtx 2080ti( I think ).

It's about 4 years old, but it still gets the job done. I've had no gfx issues. Nobara installed the nvidia drivers on its own.

If you have a spare HD. I'd recommend giving it a try. I ran popos parallel for a short while to try out gaming.

I was angry and leaped off the deep end. New OS and everything. I have a technical background so with google I probably could save my own ass :D

joe_cool ,

RX470 is fully supported with the latest drivers. Anything from Radeon HD 7000 (GCN2) series from ~10 years ago and newer uses AMDGPU with (almost) all features available. GCN1 is experimental but also works.

Older cards use the Radeon driver and miss out on Vulkan.

kennebel ,

I tried Garuda as well, and was not happy with the hoops I had to go through. I switched to Pop OS, and have had very smooth sailing so far.

figjam ,

I've started doing non-gaming on my steam deck. Not a lot but its let me use Linux in a very basic way.

ezterry ,
@ezterry@lemmy.zip avatar

Honestly, windows gamers upgrade to windows 11, Linux users stay on Linux, and everyone else is on android/ios and in no hurry to do anything about the laptop collecting dust most of the time.

Companies are also more likely to pay the extended support a year or two and update when the computer is replaced.

Its only on here on the fediverse people have time to complain about windows 11. (well some of the gamers might but more likely due to unstable systems on the newest i9 chips, since you launch steam, discord and a browser and alt tab between them.. ignoring the start menu)

Capitao_Duarte ,
@Capitao_Duarte@lemmy.eco.br avatar

Here seems like people think everyone will say "welp, that's it, going linux!". Dude, most people I've talked about it, regular people who don't spent their lives experimenting with tech, don't even know what linux is

Moorshou ,
@Moorshou@lemmy.zip avatar

I wonder what's happening?

For me, It's linux mint on my main PC, goodbye windows.

Fidel_Cashflow ,
@Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml avatar

I'm installing Linux on my machine this weekend, will probably go Mint, I've heard good things. Goodbye Mi¢ro$oft!

GreyEyedGhost ,

Due to changes in my life and career, the only reason I'm stuck on Windows is gaming. I'm not sure which will happen first, buying a Steam Deck or converting my computer to Linux for gaming, but at least one of those will happen before I upgrade to 11.

WhosMansIsThis ,

I was in your boat a few years ago. I was familiar with a few linux distros because of my job but I was hesitant to switch because the games I was playing didnt have native linux support. Eventually, I started daily driving Ubuntu and after some minor tinkering with steam and lutris, I could play any game I wanted without any issues.

That said, while I think Ubuntu is a great distro over all, there's a part of me that worries that its only a matter of time before it goes to shit... So within the last year, I made the switch to Debian 12 and I flatpak'd everything. It was seriously one of the best decisions I've ever made in the context of personal computing. Seriously, its fucking seamless. Fuck windows 4 lyfe. All my homies hate windows.

machinin ,

Why flatpacks?

WhosMansIsThis ,

By running your applications in Flatpaks, you're isolating them from the rest of your system. Essentially, Flatpaks save you from ruining your system because you installed 10 different copies of the wrong graphics drivers, while following random guides on the internet.

Running games in flatpaks ensures you're using the latest drivers, so you dont really have to worry about it. It makes things SO much easier to manage from a linux gaming perspective.

That said, Flatpaks introduce a different kind of complexity to your system and there might be a bit of a learning curve before you feel confident troubleshooting any issues that come up, especially if you have no experience working in containerized environments.

Personally, I'm coming up on a year of daily gaming in Flatpaks and I've never had any issues.

machinin ,

Thanks!

barsquid ,

Many of us would say Ubuntu has already gone to shit. I started on Ubuntu and always did Ubuntu server for running websites. Never again.

Flatpaks are pretty great. I think rpm-ostree is cool in a kinda similar way, so I've been looking into those distros.

njordomir ,

Those last 2 lines really sum it up don't they. If Windows was a family member you would disown them.

vrighter ,

if you don't play certain multiplayer games that use invasive anti-cheat software, then you really should give it a go! It's gotten to the point where I first buy games and then worry about compatibility. The vast majorityic just work with minor tweaks at the most (setting some launch arguments usually)

GreyEyedGhost ,

Yeah, I've tried a few times before and got stumped with various configuration issues. I actually have a saved post where gaming-specific distros are discussed in the hoped of getting past those issues. Now the big question is time or money. Depending which I have enough of first will determine which one happens first.

Andromxda ,

You can always dual-boot. Bazzite is a very stable Linux distro, which is optimized for gaming and basically gives you the same experience you would get on a Steam Deck. I highly recommend it.

GreyEyedGhost ,

Yeah, it's really a question of time or money for me. Whichever I have enough of first will decide which option I go with first. I don't expect I'll be buying Windows again.

Andromxda ,

Time in terms of setting everything up or learning how to use it? Because I can tell you that both are relatively easy. The installation is super easy, no harder than an ordinary Windows setup. The Steam Deck by default uses a desktop environment called KDE, as a Windows user, you should feel right at home. I'd say it's very intuitive to use and easy to learn. As Bazzite tries to mimic the Steam Deck experience as closely as possible, it uses the exact same stuff. Maybe check out this video.

gt24 ,

I wonder what’s happening?

In general...

Microsoft is being pushy and has started to enjoy that far too much.

This started with things that could be argued as things that users shouldn't control (like refusing to patch update... you can't really refuse anymore).

It then pushed to things that is a little less defensible (you were asked to update from Windows 7 to Windows 10... but they really don't want you to say no).

Once you are on the newer Windows 10 or 11, features just arrive that you have no say about because Microsoft determined it is better for you (you have AI, now AI on your taskbar, in fact you have an AI key on your taskbar, you will use Microsoft AI... the AI will just sift through your entire computer so that it can jump in front of your face to emphasize that you should use their AI!).

They points all have the same theme. Microsoft knows best, you will do what Microsoft wants, and Microsoft won't really take no for answer but may let you say "bother me later"... maybe. Once you are really pissed off, your only option is to leave a Microsoft operating system... which Microsoft is pretty sure you can't figure out on your own (more reasonably, you won't care to put in the work to learn another way) so Microsoft OS it is! Microsoft is a tad worried that those people are starting to wander off to get Google Chromebooks or just use their Android smartphones... those take less effort and more people are opting for that...

Still, Microsoft is relatively sure that people will just put up with what they are doing. I'm pretty sure they will... until they won't. Microsoft will be fine so long as they don't cross the line into the "until they won't" territory. Once they won't put up with that nonsense anymore, it is far harder to woo them back to a Microsoft OS in the future.

rodneylives ,

Once, I was asked if I wanted a special offer on Microsoft Office on boot up.
Explorer freezes so often for me when I right-click a file and select Open With that it's made me twitchy.
Frequently image icons stop displaying.
For a long while, every time I've installed Windows on a computer, I've had to go through and disable all the awful misfeatures Windows tries to put in the taskbar.
I also always have to set OneDrive so it doesn't redirect folders like Desktop and Documents into its cloud storage area.
Now Windows 11 is threatening to put CoPilot on my desktop, and I'll have to disable it too.

I'm positively longing for Linux now.

njordomir ,

I had to do all the same things on my work computer. If MS could stop shitting all over my taskbar that would be an amazing expression of basic decency. I'm about to go to IT and ask for a Linux computer that I can test with my day to day tools to make sure everything works. Typically only a few devs have them and those of us in support roles are on Windows. Microsoft is literally sapping away the time and effort my employer has paid me to put towards their customers. I use Linux at home and it has none of these problems. Actually, the worst problem I've had in years was a broken package that I simply uninstalled and re-added from a different source.

Vaggumon ,
@Vaggumon@lemm.ee avatar

I've already decided I'll be going full Linux when Win10 reaches EOL.

barsquid ,

I like it, I hope you do, too. If you decide to try beforehand I'd suggest a second machine or a VM. Apparently Windows is a massive pain when dual booting, like it commonly deactivates the Linux bootloader.

barsquid ,

That's weird. Do people not want ads in the computers they paid for begging them to subscribe to their own hardware? Do people not want LLM models watching everything they do and reporting back to headquarters? So perplexing. Welp, the users have spoken, hopefully Microsoft can figure out how to iterate. Maybe they want more ads and AI all over?

macrocephalic ,

They should have just kept incrementally upgrading W10. People don't like big changes and there's not much encouraging people to 11 except 10 going EOL.

DashboTreeFrog ,

IIRC, that was actually the plan. I remember Microsoft saying way back that 10 would be the last version of Windows and everything would be just upgrades to 10 moving forward.

Zacryon , (edited )

System as a service. I remember that as well. Obviously they didn't make as much money with it as they wanted to. Sooo they just draw an arbitrary line regarding supported CPUs, ditch Windoof 10, push 11, force users to upgrade their hardware and therefore often force them to buy new licenses and making new friends that way by starting that in the middle of the chip crisis. Then, captivating the user in their new OS, shoving ads down their throat, harvesting their data to make even more. What a shitshow.

skygirl ,

The same story of publicly traded companies again and again.

Your steady growth isn't good enough.

Your growth has to grow - and if it's not growing fast enough then you're not doing your duty to the shareholders.

Add in the fact that we've let businesses get so large they empty all the air from the room and we've managed to enshittify our entire society.

Asafum ,

Which is exactly why I actually bought 10 instead of cheating an upgrade "hack" I figured out with XP that I then carried over to 10. I figured if it's actually the last then it's worth the 500 fucking dollars or whatever the hell it cost back then.

But no, they lied. I know surprise surprise a corporation lied.

trustnoone ,

Well yeah, but the problem is win 10 isn't built from the ground up to be able to cater for ads inserted into your welcome bar, explorer bar, settings page, start menu and personalised ads ...... :( we live in the worse timeline dont we.

rodneylives ,

This isn't the worst timeline. It was always destined to end up this way. Corporations consider themselves ethically mandated to squeeze as much profit out of customers as they can, to find the exactly monetary line where the number of customers they drive off is balanced by the money they can gain by the things that drove them off. They actually believe that, and that basically means any profit-seeking corporation is going to ruin their user experience in the long run.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Yeah, this sounds like Louis Rossmann's "rapist mentality" that he's been harping on for a while. They think they own your hardware just because they make software, so they'll force you to do whatever they think is "best" for you (which is probably using more of their products).

Just say no.

Software should give you an incentive to upgrade. I use Linux 100%, and I'm excited to use the next version because it'll fix issues and add features that I'll actually want to use. I'm on openSUSE, and here are some things that I've been excited about recently:

  • KDE 6 - fixed Wayland for me, so I was able to switch back from GNOME
  • reproducible builds - I can now theoretically verify that everything I install is built properly instead of having to trust them
  • cockpit is coming to Leap 15.6 - YaST on the CLI is cool, but clunky; this sounds like I'd get largely the same thing, but through a web browser (i.e. access a port via SSH tunnel, no remote GUI required)

Software should entice you to upgrade, not force you to upgrade. That has never been the case for me for Windows, so I bailed and now use Linux, where it absolutely is the case.

NickwithaC ,
@NickwithaC@lemmy.world avatar

I don't think we should call it that but damned if the analogy doesn't fit.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Yeah, perhaps "authoritarian mentality" would be better, but that doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

NickwithaC ,
@NickwithaC@lemmy.world avatar

It's called possessiveness when humans do it. Thinking of someone as your possession. It doesn't have the bite to it as a term but it's 100% the case that companies think they own their users.

NickwithaC ,
@NickwithaC@lemmy.world avatar

"Incel mentality". Thinking they deserve the world on a plate without doing the work to earn the reward.

Empricorn ,

Yeah, I'm sure almost any other name is less charged...

discusseded ,

I loooove my openSUSE desktop. 11 was the last straw. No amount of AI is going to bring me back.

I HATE advertisements, and I paid for Pro but it seemed like they didn't care. They want to milk me for everything I'm worth.

Good thing we have options. Linux has gotten so good, it's better than Windows 11 while letting me decide how to use the OS. Big learning curve, but it's smooth sailing when you get past it.

werefreeatlast ,

It slowed down my desktop experience significantly. Like it makes no sense at all. One day I'm working I solidworks on windows 10 and old computer at acceptable speed, the next I get assigned a new, bastly improved computer, with windows 11 and solidworks latest version, and it's slow as fuck! I just want to end it sometimes. It lags, it crashes, it's worthless! SW is worthless on its own, but with windows 11 its like 10 times worse. I think they are actually serving it on a server secretly and we are just remoting into it. It behaves almost exactly as when using remote desktop. It's terrible and I want it gone!

egeres ,
@egeres@lemmy.world avatar

Why did the emoji picker of W11 get so fucking downgraded?

Lesrid ,

And the windows+P multi monitor control doesn't work before login in 11 because it's part of the taskbar now

dlrht ,

Seriously can someone fix this

AnUnusualRelic ,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

Honestly, Windows 11 works quite well, as a Windows system, but it feels unfinished. It feels like Microsoft pushed out a pre-release built and it trying to rush out fixes and completion patches.

And it's not even as if I care one much one way or another, I moved away from Windows ages ago (decades, really). I only keep a partition around for the odd game, and it's just staying around so that I can setup my Oculus CV1 again one of these days. It got upgraded to Win11, but probably hasn't booted in over a year.

I boot Windows sometimes on my laptop where I kept a small 200MB partition, mostly to see what it looks like nowadays. I'm not certain the various updates are making the experience better (at least judging from my quick twenty minutes, tour, so that's admittedly not worth much).

chilicheeselies ,

Its the only version of windows i ever had where the start menu of all thing stopped functioning. I had to restart. Wtf?

olafurp ,
  • Windows 95: Good
  • Windows 98: Bad
  • Windows 98 SE: Good
  • Windows ME: Bad
  • Windows XP: Good
  • Windows Vista: Bad
  • Windows 7: Good
  • Windows 8: Bad
  • Windows 10: Good
  • Windows 11: ?

Why are people still surprised?

ghen ,

I can't really think of a reason why 10 is listed as good, does it actually do something better than 7? Even just graphical interface?

RunawayFixer ,

Windows 7 is good compared to Vista, but bad compared to Windows Xp SP 1 or SP 2 (in my memory at least).
Windows 10 is good compared to Windows 8, but bad compared to Windows 7.

After a couple more years of MS pushing win 11, we'll probably get a win 12 that is less good than win 10, but better than win 11, so thanks to people's short term memory, it will then be considered "good", but anyone with a memory and some critical thinking ability will recognize it as shite.

n3m37h ,

With 70% of the market share being w10, no, we wont

XeroxCool ,

I beleive a large issue, and I say this as an old man yelling at kids on my lawn, is the difficulty in learning new systems. Most of those bad ones largely changed how to navigate a pc. Most of the good ones were smaller leaps from the prior bad one. So yes, I'm sure that also means the devs had more time in the current style to smooth it out and fix newly broken features, but it also got people exposed to the new style. A huge problem with 8 was that it went to that tablet tile bullshit. 10 tries to be a tablet too, slightly less so, but now we're all accepting it as normal. That's my take, at least as a contributing factor. Whatever was normal in your 20s is the standard for the rest of your life.

I see it with cars. People in my cohort get mad at all the chimey nannies in modern cars, so they yearn for when cars weren't so inundated with technology. Peak automotive design was 1985-2005. And yet, the adults when we grew up would complain those 90s cars are way too complicated with their electronic engine control models and emissions systems.

RunawayFixer ,

I'm going to disagree on this one, at least for me personally using the base functions of the different windows versions was never a problem. Even when completely ignoring the UI changes (including the always increasingly messier system configuration pages), Windows has definitely been regressing.

The user transition from win XP to win 7 was completely smooth for me, it didn't feel different at all. It's only after using it a bit that the downsides became obvious: I remember that file search worked less good, they had made a bit of a mess of config screens and the bloat needed more ram. But it came with a smashing chess program. It felt like there was some minor regression, but it wasn't a trainwreck.

Windows 8 upon first startup was awful since that was the first time that MS wanted to force the user to create a cloud account through dark pattern design. Even if I had not grown up in a time when my operating system did not use dark patterns against me, I would still be pissed off when I encountered it for the first time. Once I got past that hurdle, the Os was usable and problems only emerged when I tried to do more things.

Things like closing a stuck full screen game with task manager, which didn't work because the new task manager would not come on top. Or the new store app, which installed "apps" that were not "programs" and could fe not be uninstalled in a normal way.

From my first experiences with windows 10 I remember that out of the box you could not control when it would update. That pc would wake up in the middle of the night despite the settings saying that it shouldn't and I had to dig deep till I found how to make it behave permanently. Then at a later point I also made the mistake of using the recommended OneDrive sync system for my documents folder and nearly lost all my personal files, fortunately I had a backup on an external hard disk. And the main goal of Windows search was no longer to find files, but instead to trick users into opening bing, to boost microsoft quarterly statistics.

Microsoft has been adding more and more dark pattern design into Windows, it's not a case of "old man yells at clouds", it has really been getting worse and worse with each new release.

And Microsoft firing their qa team and using their customers as canaries is definitely not helping either. So many issues that should have never gone life.

bort ,

we’ll probably get a win 12 that is less good than win 10, but better than win 11,

I wouldn't count on it. MS is moving away from selling desktop-stuff and towards selling cloud stuff (think azure and office356) and consulting. That's why they changed their attitude towards linux (think wsl and c# for linux) and open-source (think github). MS wants companies to use open-source tools (preferably written in c#) and deploy them to azure with the help of MS-consultants.

Enshittifying windows is a step in that direction. For example: The more people have a MS-Account, the easier it is to sell office356. That's why they pressure windows-user into making MS-Accounts.

MS knows that desktop is dying.

bigschnitz ,

XP sp1 and 2 were more or less the same as me with an updated UI and non existent 64 bit. However flawed vista was, it added an actual tangible benefit for 7 to further improve on.

I'd argue 7 was the last windows os that could be described as "better" in some way than what came before (which most, even the ones we remember as "bad" at the time, did offer some real step forward which isn't true for 8/10/11).

hperrin ,

XP is based on the NT kernel, and ME is based on the 9X kernel. They are extremely different under the hood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Microsoft_Windows_versions

PrefersAwkward ,
@PrefersAwkward@lemmy.world avatar

They put some under-the-hood improvements in 10 that they didn't put in 7, such as a new display driver model and Directx 12.

But that does not make a difference to most people. Industry desupporting of Windows 7 is the biggest con to it.

Eventually, 10 will share 7's fate. So you'll have both 10's regressions and 11's and so forth to live with as long as you're on Windows. You can't stop Microsoft from desupporting and killing their software in the long run.

Microsoft has a multi-decade history of enshitification when they do not perceive any major threats. Internet Explorer, DirectX, Windows Server, etc. all rotted. Some of these are still active and supported, yes, but they all peaked years ago and are aging poorly. Microsoft doesn't really do the labor of love thing much when customers are bagged.

Linux may be able to dethrone them to an extent if it can reach an ease of access/UX that most people are comfy with. And it has made huge strides over the years. It can also run most Windows software very well.

Mac is still priced very high and still feature-limited and a 2nd/3rd-class citizen when it comes to platform targeting. Offering lower priced conputers would make them a pretty big threat I think.

I think ChromeOS is a decent threat to Windows but it loses tons of features vs all the other options. At least it is really cheap and easy to use.

w2tpmf ,

XP fucking sucked. It wasn't good until service pack 3.

You skipped 8.1 which was the good version that fixed the stuff that sucked about 8. It's existence is almost completely forgotten.

Then Windows 10 came out and it was bad.

They then had about a 10 different OS builds that all had the Windows 10 name instead of giving each build a new name or calling them service packs. The OS that exists now (22h2) has almost nothing in common with the OS that came out in 2015.

Windows 11 has also had several major leaps since that name started. What's current (23h2) is much much different than the OS that came out in 2021.

NickwithaC ,
@NickwithaC@lemmy.world avatar

Windows 2000 is also missing and was probably the last time Microsoft put out an OS that was good from the start rather than sucking on release.

Also the ones listed as bad from Vista onwards simply never got the improvements.

VindictiveJudge ,
@VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world avatar

Vista was actually shockingly solid by the end. 7 on release was essentially just Vista Service Pack 3 with a new taskbar skin, because Vista was completely unmarketable by that point and nobody could be convinced to jump to Vista anymore.

octopus_ink ,

Win2K was the last version of Windows I liked. By 2007 I'd had enough of their shit and moved to Linux. Each and every year since then has validated that choice, as desktop Linux has improved and Windows has enshittified further and further.

Tick_Dracy ,
@Tick_Dracy@lemm.ee avatar

I agree with everything you write, but I'll also add an unpopular opinion as someone who tested the beta version of Vista and hated it: Vista x64 SP2 was a good OS, which solved most of the issues that existed with the OS.

And into this day, it's the most beautiful Windows UI, at least for me.

AWittyUsername ,

95 is the best OS of all time.

lost_faith ,

Never any love for Win 3.1

rivalfloatmount , 
Windows 95: Good
Windows 98: Bad
Windows 98 SE: Good
Windows ME: Bad
Windows XP: ~~Good~~ **GOAT**
Windows Vista: Bad
Windows 7: Good
Windows 8: Bad
Windows 10: Good
Windows 11: ?

Fixed it for you, thanks!

Edit: strikeout not working as expected...

Deebster ,
@Deebster@programming.dev avatar

You're missing Windows 2000, but I guess you can argue that's Windows NT not mainline Windows. That was definitely in the good camp, and I was not alone in sticking with it for many years (until XP got good).

Edit: I see @NickwithaC beat me to this point.

helpImTrappedOnline ,

Too bad win 12 is on track to break the streak.

NaoPb ,

If you include 98SE you should also include 8.1. Or include neither. But then it wouldn't make sense anymore.

Telodzrum ,

XP SP2 is what everyone remembers, too. It wasn’t very good at release and a lot of people stayed on 2000.

NaoPb ,

I've honestly haven't had any problems with XP SP1. I've had it on a couple computers back in the day. I remember that the upgrade to SP2 wouldn't always go well. Sometimes requiring a reinstall.

joe_cool ,

Good stopped existing after 7. Only bad and slightly less bad.

drathvedro ,

Windows 10: Good

People keep repeating that but it's by far the worst and actually the one that made me bail. What is it that good about it that made it worth sacrificing user choice, privacy, performance, latency, search, startup time, solitaire, and much more?

Jarmer ,
@Jarmer@slrpnk.net avatar

Windows 11 was what finally forced me over to linux for good, no more dual booting. I know it sounds strange, but the straw that broke its back was the taskbar. I have an ultrawide monitor, so I ALWAYS have the taskbar vertical on a side. It makes zero sense to have it at the bottom. Massive waste of space. Windows 11 DID NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO MOVE THE TASKBAR. I was flabbergasted. This is a feature that has existed for decades in every OS. I just couldn't comprehend the stupidity, so I just didn't. Formatted the drive and went to Arch, then to Tumbleweed. Couldn't be happier.

FunnyUsername ,
@FunnyUsername@lemmy.world avatar

I downloaded a third party app that re enables the windows 10 taskbar and lets you put it on the side. It's called ExplorerPatcher. Cannot believe you can't dock the win 11 taskbar on the side....what a choice....

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

I ran a poll a few years ago on Reddit asking people what event made them switch to Linux from some other platform. Interestingly enough it was not the EOL of a preferred version of Windows or MacOS, but the introduction of a dreaded new one. In other words, according to my poll, more people quit using Windows not because Win 7 support ended, but because Win 8 was released. Which was counterintuitive to me.

Zacryon ,

It feels to me like every second version of Windoof is shit if you start at XP (my first Windoof OS, no experience with earlier ones):

  • XP guhd
  • Vista shite
  • 7 guhd
  • 8 shite
  • 10 guhd
  • 11 shite

Until now I was able to skip every second version and could wait until the newer and better one was released. But now it seems that I need to make a complete switch to a suitable gaming Linux OS. I don't have any other use for Windoof.

Your poll results feel therefore relatable to me. I want a system that just works and with which I can do everything I need to. I don't mind testing new features. Often I welcome them. But if I can already expect that I have to adjust to new features which are unavoidable, and from which I can tell – either by reading reviews or testing myself – that I really don't like them, then of course I stay with the system which doesn't have them as long as I can still do everything I need to.

Theharpyeagle ,

Well, it's been shown with previous releases and this one that Windows gets really pushy about upgrading long before EoL for the previous OS, so I can understand the frustration. Especially annoying if you're running something like a kiosk or a TV app that doesn't have mouse/keyboard readily available.

MisterFrog ,
@MisterFrog@lemmy.world avatar

This and the worse right-click menu make me dread the day I have to switch at work :/

Theharpyeagle ,

SAME! I like to have my taskbar at the top of the screen, and seeing that Microsoft had absolutely no intention of allowing it because of their oh so special start menu sent me over the edge. Been full time on Linux Mint for about a year now and I'm loving it. Proton and Lutris have made it surprisingly viable for gaming, to the point where I can runmost games without any troubleshooting.

spaghettiwestern , (edited )

Windows 11? Let's see here...

Spyware/malware since that infamous Windows 7 update sending everything (including passwords) to Microsoft. Ads spread across the UI in W11. Simple features hidden or disabled. Bing Internet search results in the Start Menu that can't be disabled unless you edit the registry. Search engine in the Start Menu cannot be changed. Numerous other previously simple settings changes that now require registry edits. Menu items gone, and others that still exist but inexplicably have been removed from the Start Menu search. Edge browser forced down your throat no matter what you set as the default browser. Upgrades that you can't do at your convenience and forced restarts that happen even if you have open files that you're editing. Long (sometimes really long) upgrade restart times. Forced Microsoft account use to install and use the OS & Internet access required to even install the OS. Absurdly inflexible hardware requirements that make no sense for most people. A taskbar that can't be moved. Numerous programs and garbage spread through the OS that cannot be removed or disabled.

Besides that, what's not to like?

capital_sniff ,

You left out the forced rounded corners.

Zacryon ,

Holy shit.
I fucking hate that rounded corner mania which is spreading all over UI design decisions almost everywhere you look.

I can tolerate it with window borders, but if rounded corners hide content, e.g., of videos or images, it really irrationally infuriates me.

My screens are rectangular. Not rounded. I paid for those pixels, so fucking use them! ò_ó

LaunchesKayaks ,
@LaunchesKayaks@lemmy.world avatar

Windows 11 sucks ass, but I really get tired of people saying you are forced to use an account. There are multiple ways to make a local account in 11 when doing initial setup. It just sucks that it makes most people think that they have to use an account

spaghettiwestern ,

Regular users are absolutely forced to use a Microsoft account, no matter how tired you are. People shouldn't have to be techies to keep their information private.

sparkle , (edited )

You don't have to be a techie to see it. There's a button right below the email text box saying "Add a user without a Microsoft account" (here's another variation). Sure if you don't care about privacy then you might not notice it, but it's pretty hard to miss if you actually don't want to use an email. It's not hidden behind layers of clicks or a collapsed menu or something, it's a text link that says what it does that's on the same email setup page. Microsoft sucks but don't spread misinformation.

spaghettiwestern , (edited )

A tomshardware.com article about how to bypass the account requirement from February of this year:

https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-windows-11-without-microsoft-account

It requires numerous steps to bypass the account requirement or the creation of special installation media. I ran into the Internet and account requirements when installing W11 on a VM in January.

Perhaps the screenshots you posted were accurate at some point or in some situations, but you need to do better research before accusing others of spreading misinformation, and it is you who needs to stop spreading misinformation.

southernbrewer , (edited )

I had to help my sister keep her 8 year old Mac going or buy a new secondhand (cheap) machine. With the options out there and with the state of Windows, I didn't even consider it.

She's ended up with her same 8 year old Mac with Ubuntu 24.04, and I've been really impressed with how it's actually great for non-technical users these days! And works really well on old hardware.

This should give her another few years of life out of the thing without worrying about software support.

bruhduh ,
@bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar

Go for tumbleweed, it's supporting wide range of architectures (including even powerpc so you can still use powerpc macs) and it's rolling release distro on top of that

helpmyusernamewontfi ,

I've been on fedora for quite awhile, what makes tumbleweed better or unique? might try it sometime

NaoPb ,

Are you talking about OpenSUSE?

bruhduh ,
@bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar

Yes

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