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ArmokGoB ,

I can't run a lot of games with anti-cheat on Linux, so it's not viable for me.

woodenskewer ,
@woodenskewer@lemmy.world avatar

I'm wine inept so it's not viable for me either. I spent a total of 4 to 6 weekends trying to get shit to work. I just can't get it right.

Siegfried ,

I just recently tried a game running with proton (which i understand is wine with extras). I was really impressed cause i download it and it was just running. Maybe i got lucky or it was just the game (valheim).

My only big trouble with all of this is the hardware management, not having access to software like adrenaline gives me a bad feeling. I ran the game steadily with the GPU at around 60°C, but certain situations, and specially the "start up" produced peaks of 90°C in really small time windows. Thats holding me for now.

As I understand, valheim has a linux native version but i wamted to try proton after all.

woodenskewer ,
@woodenskewer@lemmy.world avatar

I was able to get an indie title to work but it wasn't the two games I was playing at the time. Guardians of the galaxy and RE4. I'm currently on FFXIV which has a silver or gold on the "does it work" site I forget what it's called. But not having adrenaline is kind of a bummer. I use that too. The frame generation is a great feature.

Breve ,

I just made the switch and Steam with Proton has been really smooth, they've made a lot of progress to make it easy since the Steam Deck has come out. I don't play any online competitive games that use anti-cheat though.

hglman ,

How recently did you try this?

woodenskewer ,
@woodenskewer@lemmy.world avatar

4 months ago when I got an unsolicited ad for starfield on my lock screen.

imecth ,
@imecth@kbin.social avatar

Using wine can be a bit troublesome especially if you're new to linux. For example wine doesn't come with dxvk which is basically mandatory for playing games nowadays.
Most people use another program to deal with wine, like lutris, bottles, or steam with the built in proton.

woodenskewer ,
@woodenskewer@lemmy.world avatar

Lutris is what i should have said, that's what I was using, but I think what made me think wine was the dependencies of sorts in the settings of lutris. I really wish I could get it down because I liked PopOS a lot.

BradleyUffner ,

Switch to Linux!

Where your sound card can stop working randomly when you reboot, or your network card won't work at the same time as your mouse!

Zetta ,

I've never had any issues like that, been running Fedora for 3 or so years now.

ganoo ,
@ganoo@sh.itjust.works avatar

Back to the home, grandpa

vox ,
@vox@sopuli.xyz avatar

actually these are the kind of issues I'm having on windows right now. (i have a secondary machine with windows 11)

sound card stops working if i have my mic enabled for too long, network card driver stops refreshing ipv6 adresses randomly, cpu usage randomly spikes to 100% while in sleep mode (causing the temperature to spike to like 95 degrees because the fan exhaust is covered when the lid is closed (also i have disabled auto updates (using a GPO, i do them manually) and background ms defender scans, so it's not that))

I'm considering just nuking that install too

merdaverse ,

Wow, Microsoft are always so innovative! I never thought that the Win11 taskbar could get any shittier, but somehow they managed it. It's great to see those thousands of engineers being put to good use.

realitista ,
@realitista@lemmy.world avatar

Install this. You will thank me later.

Hadriscus , (edited )

If it's not a link to an Ubuntu LiveCD, I'm leaving Lemmy

Come on people I'm joking. You can unclench your butthills

kalpol ,

Ditch Ubuntu too. Mint or OpenSuse are very good alternatives.

WeirdGoesPro ,
@WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Not to mention sweet mother Debian.

Dra ,

Ubuntu server is fine relax

rolaulten ,

With how they keep shoving snaps at everyone? At my work a migration to Debian is starting to be openly pondered.

bigMouthCommie ,
@bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

gnome is pushing flatpacks. the official gnome distro is immutable.

i like debian. i like gnome. i don't like this trend.

rolaulten ,

I almost never interact with desktop Linux. That's a horrifying trend.

lorty ,
@lorty@lemmy.ml avatar

We do not talk about ubuntu here

Orionza ,
@Orionza@lemmy.world avatar

Thanks. My win11 install is coming up. Looks like I may need this. Bookmarked

realitista ,
@realitista@lemmy.world avatar

It has had such a massive positive effect on my life relative to the price.

ChaoticNeutralCzech ,

There are more ways to make Windows suck less, even open source ones: https://feddit.de/comment/7447632 Of course, pick whatever is best for you, but FOSS is ultimately safer (and free!).

w2tpmf ,

Purchase licence key

No, thanks.

farngis_mcgiles ,

its very reasonable

MDKAOD ,

... Coffee costs more than this license.

realitista ,
@realitista@lemmy.world avatar

There are free OS alternatives out there (which I suspect you already use but just want to poop on other's parade).

I assume that if someone's already using Windows, a paid OS, they are willing to pay $2 to make it usable.

histic ,

idk who pays for windows these days but go you

BombOmOm ,

Almost everyone pays for Windows. Notice how computers that let you not include it in the order get cheaper.

histic ,

not everyone buys prebuilts but I haven't had any actual windows license since like windows 7 I just use a random key off a PC work is throwing out oh just don't register the shit

ChaoticNeutralCzech ,

I prefer if persistent, high-permission code running on my machine is FOSS, and support the devs if I see it's useful

realitista ,
@realitista@lemmy.world avatar

I prefer it too, but if something works well and saves me time and effort for $2, I don't make a big deal out of it. I also need to accomplish things other than monkeying around with my computer.

AtariDump ,

Open shell?

w2tpmf ,

This is the way.

AtariDump ,

This is the way

captainlezbian ,

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

    •
    realitista ,
    @realitista@lemmy.world avatar

    I've used them all (probably 20+ different OS' in my lifetime), and they all have a place. I use Windows, MacOS, and Linux daily, each for what they are good at. Maybe people should use what works best for them?

    histic ,

    classic shell does the same thing for free I'll pass

    ChaoticNeutralCzech ,

    Not open source. Use:

    • Open Shell
      • brings a normal Start Menu back as well as an optional taskbar in Explorer
    • Explorer Patcher
      • revives Explorer's "commented-out code", bringing back functionality from previous Windows versions: optionally translucent taskbar without blur, seconds display in calendar popup, optionally the weather widget and many many more
    • CTT winutil
      • installs/updates various free programs for you with one click, one-stop-shop for all kinds of recommended debloat/freedom settings
    • MSEdge Redirect
      • self-explanatory: all Bing queries from within the OS apps go to your preferred search engine & default browser instead
    merdaverse ,

    I did one better. I installed Linux

    realitista ,
    @realitista@lemmy.world avatar

    Goody for you

    echodot ,

    I never pressed that button anyway I just use the keyboard shortcut.

    iN8sWoRLd ,
    @iN8sWoRLd@lemmy.world avatar

    oh this one is going to be so pissed when they find out they also re-mapped the keyboard shortcut /s

    JasonDJ ,

    I wouldn’t be surprised. Microsoft continues to prove that they hate keyboard users, constantly changing or invalidating such classic keyboard shortcuts as…Alt+F.

    They don’t give a damn. They want you pointing, clicking, and touching.

    My god the touching.

    The screenshot utility, and OneNote, have a ruler tool you can use for making straight lines with the highlighter or w/e. If you want to change the angle of it, you have to hover over the center of it and use the mouse wheel.

    The first time I used it in onenote it was at 45deg. Had to google how to fix it. It’s clearly intended for touchscreens.

    NoRodent ,
    @NoRodent@lemmy.world avatar

    I'm just glad Copilot isn't available in Europe.

    Cheesy ,

    It's not? I have Copilot through my Office 365 work account.

    miridius ,

    As a person in Europe currently using it, I am very confused by this comment

    NoRodent ,
    @NoRodent@lemmy.world avatar

    Then I guess it's only in some countries. I've seen articles saying it wasn't available in Europe as a whole but maybe that's old news.

    TwilightVulpine , (edited )

    Just once I would love to open one of these threads without seeing people shitting... on Linux.

    Linux is not even the one doing anything wrong but people gotta rag on whoever recommends it as an alternative. This is getting more annoying than however annoying they say Linux users are.

    edit: Just to make clear because some folks aren't getting it, this is not an invitation to argue about how you feel about Linux and Linux users. I. don't. fucking. care. I don't even use Linux. Take it to someone who cares.

    SpaceCadet ,
    @SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

    People be like:

    https://feddit.nl/pictrs/image/489d27cf-0dfa-45ec-83b3-230455be3129.png

    TwilightVulpine ,

    tbf I get it. Sometimes you just want to be mad.

    But like, it's Microsoft's fault.

    refurbishedrefurbisher ,

    Or Adobe, Autodesk, Nvidia, etc.

    echodot ,

    Your solution isn't a solution though it's like saying that the solution to drowning is to set yourself on fire. It's just a different kind of problem.

    SpaceCadet ,
    @SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

    No it isn't.

    It's more like saying: if that guy you hang out with keeps pushing you into the water and you almost drown every time, perhaps you should stop hanging out with that guy.

    Of course, that's not what people who are in an abusive relationship typically want to hear.

    echodot ,

    It's hardly a big deal, none of what Microsoft has done is really that annoying. Individually they are barely even noteworthy.

    Switching to Linux is a huge pain in the ass to have to go through so Microsoft would have to do something seriously messed up for me to even want to put up with it. I'm not assuming that I could find equivalent programs that even ran on Linux.

    Rustmilian ,
    @Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

    Switching to Linux is a huge pain in the ass.

    This is literally how MacOS and long time Linux users feel when switching to Windows.

    BradleyUffner ,

    And how many people are telling Linux users to switch to Windows?

    Rustmilian ,
    @Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

    Not many, but you'd be surprised.

    intensely_human ,

    Yes, I would be very surprised.

    SpaceCadet ,
    @SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

    That's exactly the kind of shit abused people say to justify staying with their abusive partner. ("Oh it's not so bad" - she says with a black eye - "and he's really sweet normally")

    Yes in the short term it can be painful to leave an abusive person you've come to depend upon, but in the long term it's always the better solution.

    ganoo ,
    @ganoo@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Literally abusive relationship cope. LMAO.

    intensely_human ,

    "He's always ready with a life preserver and a towel though"

    BradleyUffner ,

    And in this case they aren't even drowning. They have a slightly annoying icon in the corner of their screen.

    mods_are_assholes , (edited )

    Linux isn't a solution if you play competitive multiplayer games, which most people do.

    Edit: keep being classy basement trolls, you're only proving my statements about the shittiness of the linux community with every downvote.

    Rustmilian , (edited )
    @Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

    Fair, but also depends on which one's.
    ~40-45% of them do actually work.

    LainTrain ,

    What??? Do you have a statistic on this like does most of the population of earth play call of street fortnite 20 or whatever "competitively"?

    Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

    I think you are confusing "professionally" and "competitively". Anyone playing to win is being competitive.

    LainTrain ,

    I don't think that many people even play video games nevermind online ones nevermind competitive ones

    https://truelist.co/blog/gaming-statistics

    Like 41% which is more than I expected but only a tiny fraction of those use PCs

    Rustmilian , (edited )
    @Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

    call of street fortnite 20

    Is now permanently in my lexicon.

    prole ,
    @prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Lol yeah "most people" definitely do not play competitive multiplayer games. Are the other children in your friend group literally the only other humans you've ever met?

    CheesyFox ,

    there are 3 billion people playing videogames, most of them playing casual af shit like candy crush (https://explodingtopics.com/blog/number-of-gamers).

    About "competitive" multiplayer games: have you tried proton? I myself was sticking with Windows untill i eventually tried it.

    Linux is not a solution if you have a skill issue. The longer people have this kind of mindset you have, the longer Microsoft will pretend to be a monopolist, the longer they will behave like total shitheads towards their customers.

    btr_fan87 ,

    Is proton also a work around for easy anti-cheat now?

    CheesyFox ,

    It literally is. Played Hunt: Showdown and Warthunder with no problems at all

    iN8sWoRLd ,
    @iN8sWoRLd@lemmy.world avatar

    I'm upvoting you because I know what you're trying to say.
    Personally I don't have a lot of time to game anymore but I vote with my wallet and I try to only buy games on steam that are linux native. I have found a lot of great indy games this way and I don't feel like I'm "missing out". Still, I get it.

    long_chicken_boat ,

    "most people" = "most teens". I don't know any adult that plays competitive multiplayer games other than maybe CSGO.

    caron ,
    @caron@lemmy.zip avatar

    I am not sure if most people play competitive multiplayer games

    intensely_human ,

    Sounds like something a Bronze leaguer would say

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    which most people do.

    Lolwhut?

    Most people who play competitive multiplayer games (a minority of total users) do so on console

    intensely_human ,

    "But the controller is an inferior aiming device"

    "Yeah and the foot is an inferior ball handling device, but soccer still exists as a game"

    veniasilente ,

    Care to cite sources for that? Haven't seen people playing "competitive multiplayer games" from most people in a while, now.

    intensely_human ,

    You probably live in some weird outlier community. 88% of Americans are competitive gamers now.

    mods_are_assholes ,

    Fuck off sealion

    veniasilente ,

    Oh, are your gaming statistics hurt?

    HKayn ,
    @HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

    "Hey I have a problem with my Samsung"

    "Drop it and get an iPhone instead"

    This is what you guys are like.

    Rustmilian ,
    @Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

    iPhone is $999+, Linux is completely free.

    capital ,

    It’s funny this meme of iPhones being expensive is still a thing.

    The cheapest one is under $450.

    histic ,

    why would anyone buy an even more pos phone. I had a 12 and 13 before my pixel there is nothing good about them, unless you are insecure about people's thoughts on what color your msgs are. also you don't need to copy and paste you comment on everyone's damn comment no one give a fuck.

    capital ,

    You need to chill.

    I responded to a grand total of 2 comments with the same sentiment but they were not copies of each other. The over the top aggressive response is completely unwarranted.

    What's more is that yours and my mom don't need flagship phone performance and what you refer to as a "pos phone" would do just fine for the vast majority of people's use cases without coming close to utilizing all available resources.

    I'm correcting the evidently popular belief that iPhones are expensive. As it turns out, only the expensive ones are expensive. Imagine that.

    Rustmilian ,
    @Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

    That's still expensive compared to $0

    SpaceCadet ,
    @SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

    When people tell you to use Linux, they're not telling you that to solve your immediate problem (e.g. your "show desktop" icon has been replaced with a different icon), but they are telling you to get out of your abusive relationship with Microsoft, because that is the real problem: Microsoft does not respect you, the end-user of their product, and this kind of abusive shit will keep happening for as long as you keep using Windows.

    HKayn ,
    @HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

    they are telling you to get out of your abusive relationship with Microsoft

    And how well has that worked so far?

    SpaceCadet ,
    @SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

    For people like me who took that advice: pretty damn great actually, thanks for asking!

    HKayn ,
    @HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

    How many people have you managed to convert in this thread?

    SpaceCadet ,
    @SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

    Even if it's only one, I will have helped one person, unlike you who has only been bitching and moaning.

    HKayn ,
    @HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

    If that's what you think will improve how the Linux community is perceived, then do go on.

    SpaceCadet ,
    @SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

    This may sound strange to you, but I actually don't give a single fuck about how you perceive things.

    HKayn ,
    @HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

    Oh I wasn't talking about me.

    SpaceCadet ,
    @SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

    Yes you were sweetie.

    squidspinachfootball ,

    I keep seeing this, and yes, it's running the image of the Linux community. Even for me who's part of it.

    "Help, Windows problem."

    "Linux is the answer."

    "But I want to use Windows."

    "Then you're a stupid ingrate who's below me and deserve nothing good in your life."

    Do you hear yourselves? I'm exaggerating, but come on guys. You're better than this, good grief.

    Zetta ,

    Me! Switched to fedora from Windows about 3 years ago and don't regret it one bit. Probably the best decision I've made in regards to personal computing in my adult life.

    HKayn ,
    @HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

    If you switched 3 years ago, you haven't been converted in this very thread.

    knexcar ,

    Did Lemmy even exist 3 years ago? I thought the Lemmy migration was only last summer.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@mastodon.social avatar

    it has existed for many years but it wasn't much fun til it hit a critical mass of users

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@mastodon.social avatar

    https://lemmy.ml/u/dessalines

    lead dev

    refurbishedrefurbisher ,

    Yeah, since 2019

    Rustmilian , (edited )
    @Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

    I'm actually helping someone from this convert rn.

    Mikina ,

    I did switch around a month ago due to a thread similar to this, and I have booted windows like twice since then, and im really glad I made the switch. So, yes, threads like this did help me, while also providing good starting tips.

    aStonedSanta ,

    Who asked you for help with our relationship? I believe someone complained about a random feature change. And here you are. Telling everyone to just fuck off and switch completely. It’s insane.

    SpaceCadet ,
    @SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

    JFC people like you ... You have like the worst case of Stockholm syndrome I've ever seen. I swear the only reason you are getting so angry and defensive when people recommend Linux is because deep down you know they're speaking the truth.

    aStonedSanta ,

    No. It’s annoying being told the only solution is to throw everything out the window and start over. No stockholm syndrome I run a Ubuntu server and ran arch when I was 14. Fuck off with your stupid takes and offer a real solution to the problem.

    SpaceCadet ,
    @SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

    Fuck off with your stupid takes

    Yeah, real mature take you have there buddy.

    offer a real solution to the problem.

    "My husband always beats me when he is drunk. Don't tell me to leave him, just tell me how I get him to stop beating me"

    ^
    This is you basically.

    aStonedSanta ,

    No. That is your perspective to a situation. That is not fact. Stop valueing your own voice so highly. You start to forget you can be wrong.

    SpaceCadet ,
    @SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

    Listen, if you don't like what I have to say, don't read my comments, block me or stop replying or something, but I'm not going to shut myself up to please some random twerp like you.

    squidspinachfootball ,

    Listen I'm all for Linux and use it myself, but this is not the way to get people to switch. Even I'm starting to get annoyed by all the answers in these threads being "Just switch to Linux, there are definitely no problems and it's a 1:1 workflow." (Yes, hyperbole. But you get the idea.) If a user has an issue and does not want, or cannot, switch to Linux, then Linux is not the solution.

    You're not wrong. They're still stuck in the "abusive relationship" with MS. In fact you're absolutely right. But trying to push Linux onto these people like this only results in their view of Linux getting worse, and makes them more likely to stay on Windows to avoid the insufferable Linux users. It's coming from a good place, but it's honestly not helping. Every solution needs to consider the user's use case and their parameters, or else it doesn't matter. In the end what you're saying is not wrong at all, but you're still not offering the right solution.

    aStonedSanta ,

    Exactly. The only abusive relationship is their view towards users who will not accept their solution as gospel.

    smileyhead ,

    I have a way for you both:

    Give two solutions, one short-term and second long-term.

    SpaceCadet , (edited )
    @SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

    I'm not a Windows user, and certainly not a Windows expert. Why should I have to provide solutions to Windows problems? I use Linux so that I don't have to bother with that shit.

    smileyhead ,

    Then don't bother and don't give a solution.
    Or at least say "I don't know if there is a short-term solution in a form of simple switch, but I know if we switch from Windows in long-term there won't br such problems ever again".

    SpaceCadet ,
    @SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

    Again, I'm not going to silence or censor myself for some random internet bully like you. Who the fuck are you to say what kind of advise I can and cannot give? Get lost.

    smileyhead ,

    You're right, sorry for that. This is what I would give as an advice, you can give whatever advice you like, I shouldn't write this in such imperative form.

    SpaceCadet ,
    @SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

    Well even so you're barking up the wrong tree. Read my comment history: I never gave anyone the personal advise to switch to Linux, because honestly I don't care about what anyone uses, and frankly I dislike Windows users coming over to Linux forums expecting everything to be the same as Windows under a different name and complaining when it isn't. I was merely explaining why people are giving that advise.

    prole ,
    @prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Nah, I switched to Linux last year and it cost me $0. No new hardware needed. So not a good metaphor.

    HKayn ,
    @HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

    You misunderstood what the metaphor was.

    prole ,
    @prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Are iPhones free now?

    Trainguyrom ,

    More like:

    “Hey I have a problem with my Samsung”

    "Here's a custom ROM you can install instead" (but also glosses over a lot of the finer decisions that go into whether or not to choose to run a custom ROM)

    long_chicken_boat ,

    you don't have to pay for a +1000$ device to switch to Linux. In most cases, you can just install it in the same machine you have Windows.

    It's more like replacing Samsung's Android ROM with a custom ROM. Sure, you'll have to learn new things to use it, but you don't have to buy an iPhone.

    capital ,

    I get what you’re saying but I just want to point out that the lowest cost iPhone is under $450.

    Rustmilian ,
    @Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

    I'd argue that's still not a very good comparison, because for ROMs you have to go through the trouble of researching the specific method for your phone brand, model, & firmware version, learning adb, unlocking the bootloader, flashing a custom recovery, then from there you can install a custom ROM. Then if you fuck up you have to figure out how to debrick the device.
    While Linux(user friendly distros specifically) is just burning an ISO to a USB, possibly changing 1 or 2 settings in the BIOS & booting from that USB, then just clicking through a graphical installer like calamares.
    The barrier to entry is drastically smaller.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    It does sometimes feel like a guy with face scars from an exploded Samsung reaching for another Samsung while saying "I hope they've made improvements"

    veniasilente ,

    Lol you wish Linux was an equivalent to an iPhone in this analogy. Pretty analogy from you.

    BradleyUffner ,

    I don't think this meme applies here. The person who's mad isn't the one using Windows. They got mad about a "problem" someone else was having and decided to use it as an excuse to push Linux.

    aStonedSanta ,

    Exactly. The Linux bros are not offering a solution. They are the same people as the “just move” people. Annoying ass trolls.

    Kyatto ,
    @Kyatto@leminal.space avatar

    But moving costs money, switching to linux costs nothing (if you have free cloud storage or a second drive to backup and migrate important data, even then you could get one of those for cheap or free depending on your needs), and with how linux is these days there are distros that are as plug and play as windows for basic tasks that most people do, and a welcoming community and infinite resources to make learning curves small if you want to take on something more advanced. Further than that Linux can be more friendly, allowing easy configuration and GUIs to do things that would require "hacking" to do on windows or third party bloated applications.

    I'm on a more advanced distro, but it's basically easy-mode arch skipping the technical set up stage, and honestly it is not hard to pick up at all, if I did what I did on windows my experience would be roughly the same except I designed my own task bar set up and my PC has been running quieter and more efficiently, everything past that is me tailoring my experience past what a normal user would do.

    I tried linux a decade ago and it was sluggish in the UI and didn't have support for a lot of things but these days it feels 99% to what windows is for me with some extras. It's time to switch for people on the fence, especially with the rapid enshittification of things.

    knexcar ,

    I think the hurdle isn’t money but time, and yes it takes quite a bit of time to learn a new OS, figure out why your graphics card is running so slow, move your files to an external drive and back, find alternatives to the programs you use and learn their quirks and missing features, learn the difference between apt-get and snap and flatpak when programs only support one, figure out what a .tar.gz file is and how to install one (what was that chain of commands with “sudo make” in it), find tweaks and workarounds to get certain games working in Proton, and do that all again if you don’t like the distro (because Linux users love suggesting new distros)

    Kyatto ,
    @Kyatto@leminal.space avatar

    You are totally right about the time, I agree with you there, it did take some time for me to make sure I was ready for an install but once I got it it went super quick and I haven't had any issues with graphics even though I'm using nvidia. As for the terminal, I'm probably an outlier but I'm totally fine with that and I do have some previous experience from when I was younger messing around in ubuntu that made it easier now even though I'm on a much different distro.

    CustodialTeapot ,

    I rarely see that,. But what I see all the time is Linux lovers being toxic fanboys trying to shove their "passion" down everyone's throat. Also, 99% of them being wrong about what it can "offer".

    Its a pure superiority complex fanbase.

    TwilightVulpine ,

    Complaining about Linux and Linux users happens in every Windows-related thread, and you are doing it right now.

    As a slight aside I am also sooo tired of people calling talking about something "shoving down our throats". People talking about someone you don't care for is not physically assaulting you. That expression seems to exist solely for people to wind themselves up over stuff that absolutely doesn't justify that level of outrage.

    wizardbeard ,
    @wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    It's shoving down throats when Linux is brought up in every single Windows discussion. The complaints about Linux are in response to Linux users never being able to just let it lie, people aren't just bitching in a void.

    This is absolutely not people being mad for people just talking about something. I have an extremely hard time believing you truly believe that is the issue here.

    There are countless places to discuss Linux without bringing it into the comments of every Windows post. Windows users are not commenting on every post in the Linux communities about how much more straightforward running Windows is.

    It would be like vegan eaters commenting about how good it is to be vegan on every post in food communities that features non-vegan food.

    Lucidlethargy ,
    @Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Lol this is a thread that was started because of a minor cosmetic windows issue, where the proposed solution in the original post is to switch to Linux.

    It's Linux users shitting on Windows to begin with... With the response being essentially "Linux doesn't meet my needs".

    I used to think evangelicals were bad, but this is a whole new level...

    Chakravanti ,

    Fanbase because the philosophy is based on owning your computer. If some asshole you don't know needs your trust to run their closed-source-no-one-really-knows-what-it-actually does inside what is no longer really your computer just because you paid for it then here...here's a dum-dum. Hands you a sucker.

    mriormro ,
    @mriormro@lemmy.world avatar

    'Just switch to Linux' isn't a solution to a problem. It's a tired and lazy ass response that is frankly starting to make me dislike this place.

    TwilightVulpine ,

    How much more practical it is to complain about users of a different system than the one the thread is about? It got to a point people are doing this preemptively even.

    shiftymccool ,

    When "this lemon is too sour" is the problem, maybe "here, try this orange" is the solution. Can you imagine responding like "No! People are always talking about oranges! I'm sick of it and won't try one!" Ridiculous...

    knexcar ,

    Trying an orange is a lot easier than creating a boot USB, copying all your files over to an external hard drive, installing a new OS, fixing weird things like the graphics card having crap performance or the laptop screen brightness not dimming, learning the weird 3 letter file structure, being bogged down by apt-get vs snaps vs flatpak and adding repos (why not search and download an .exe like a normal OS), realizing that your more specialized programs don’t work, etc.

    Besides, it’s not just ONE person, seeming everyone says it every time a lemon has a scratch or a blemish or too many seeds. And then they dramatize it by calling it an “abusive relationship”.

    aStonedSanta ,

    Yup. I’m about over lemmy cause of this shit. Linux bros are worse than vegans.

    knexcar , (edited )

    Agreed, just glance at the linked Reddit thread and it’s refreshing how little Linux is mentioned. I’m really tired of seeing it (and related FOSS circlejerking) on every vaguely related Lemmy thread and I suspect that’s where most of the “Linux bashing” is coming from, we’re just sick of it.

    AzureRT ,
    @AzureRT@reddthat.com avatar

    "or the screen brightness not dimming"

    This. Have this issue on my laptop, tried to fix it, didn't work. Not gonna bother with Linux now when I've had this issue happen to me both on said laptop and my desktop

    I can see the appeal in Linux and wouldn't mind continuing to use it, but I will stick with Windows because I am more familiar with it and because I play games that can only run on it (Not saying this part to you but just in general)

    FoxBJK ,
    @FoxBJK@midwest.social avatar

    OK well if you're looking for the actual solution to the problem brought up in this thread..... here: https://i.imgur.com/nHEcFG2r.png

    MonkeMischief ,

    I mean "Just fix Microsoft and change its direction to be less consistently hostile and disrespectful of users" is a solution...

    "Put an end to the data and attention harvesting economy" is another.

    ...but...switching OSs was easier for me personally, until we figure out how to wrangle a tech behemoth or fix underlying problems with human civilization.

    echodot ,

    As is everyone taking every possible opportunity to mention Linux. It's not like we don't know it exists, we don't need constantly reminding that it's an option.

    Although it isn't an option for a vast number of reasons, but mostly because corporate IT requires systems that run only on Windows. Therefore the only solution is Windows so the fact another operating system exists is utterly irrelevant and yet somehow you guys constantly keep mentioning it. Then we constantly have to point out that lots and lots of programs don't run on Linux and then you will inhibitively start going on about Wine. It's tiring. I would love it if we could have a conversation about Microsoft without having to pretend that other operating systems are viable alternatives.

    TwilightVulpine ,

    If Linux is not for you that's understandable. The thing here is that they are not having a conversation about Microsoft. They are having the pettiest, least technical possible discussion about Linux, it's devolving to pure clique shit talking.

    If you want to talk about Microsoft, just talk about Microsoft.

    HKayn ,
    @HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

    Problem is, whenever you try taking about Microsoft, someone just has to interject and be like "yeah you should be using Linux instead"

    Rustmilian ,
    @Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

    Then stop talking about Microsoft

    https://media.tenor.com/aQ41XW_L7AEAAAAM/bee-surprised.gif

    /s

    voodooattack ,

    I'd just like to interject for a moment…

    intensely_human ,

    And whenever someone mentions Linux, we have to take up 75% of the thread responding to it.

    Rustmilian ,
    @Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

    That's actually hilarious.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    The Microsoft company is not happy with me--that's okay, I'll still keep downloading patches for that garbage.

    Alborlin ,

    Or how about

    1. You can't easily define what apps start with startup
    2. Even when wine is installed , lot of programs won't run in wine
    3. You cannot easily find where the program is installed like you can in windows
    4. You attach a external disk but some apps won't see it mounted making it Impossible to explore in their file picker , not all but some
    5. There is almost huge lack of programs , for which there is huge possibility that a windows program exists.
    6. There is constant need to use terminal for lot of things for which you can't a program see point 4.

    I keep telling Linux is still not for common home use for users who are in between power users and people only using it for browsing.
    This will get me downvotes here on Lemmy all the time . Linux edge lords are their own bubble.

    icedterminal ,

    All but one of your points here appear to be your lack of understanding Linux and/or user error. Point 4 (2) is understandable due to Windows just being the default and most popular choice.

    aStonedSanta ,

    And that’s exactly the fucking point. It’s a terrible idea to tell people to switch. Cause they don’t understand it.

    icedterminal ,

    That's not a very strong argument.

    When you started a job, did you understand it all? When you first started using Windows, Android or iOS, did you understand it all? No you didn't. As with anything you've never used or done before, you won't understand the ins and outs or know what to do in many situations. You learn about them. I certainly didn't know much about Linux when I started using it. In an IT environment, I had to learn. I work with Windows and Linux on a daily basis. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. I use both on my personal devices.

    aStonedSanta ,

    No. But starting a job pays me. Changing OS over a minor feature is a completely insane waste of my time. You are aware of the context of this post right??

    HowManyNimons ,

    You wanna know what my job pays me to do? Create and edit Visual Studio solutions. Checkmate atheists.

    SpaceCadet ,
    @SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

    Even point 4 is something I have never experienced, and is probably also lack of understanding.

    A filesystem is either mounted or it isn't. Mounted for one program but not for another doesn't exist. If they don't see it in the filepicker, they probably just don't know the mount point.

    icedterminal ,

    Point 4 is listed twice in the comment. So I used "4 (2)" to point out what I was responding to. The second point 4.

    unionagainstdhmo ,
    @unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar
    1. You can’t easily define what apps start with startup

    https://aussie.zone/pictrs/image/f8537785-ff20-4bd4-8952-27893b4867f8.png

    For point 2, that is true and improving. Always do some research about program compatibility before completely changing your computer's OS.

    For point 3. Programs are generally installed in /usr/bin and ~/.var/app for Flatpaks (analogous to MS Store). Much easier than finding where MS store apps are installed.

    Never come across point 4, so I can't dismiss it.

    1. As with 2, depends on your usecase

    2. GNOME Disk manager (comes with Fedora and Ubuntu) has options to mount drives to arbitrary locations if needed.

    I understand your argument but making points like these don't really contribute to the discussion.

    Harbinger01173430 ,

    Why is micro shit even the first choice? Go ChromeOS or something cool. Smh

    FoxBJK ,
    @FoxBJK@midwest.social avatar

    Because MS puts work into backwards compatibility, so the business who paid someone to write an app for them 30 years ago can still use it today on a Win11 box. No shot of that happening on macOS, who has deprecated PowerPC and 32-bit support, and Linux is just too much of a wildcard.

    mods_are_assholes ,

    Fuck linux, the've had 30 years to make a consumer grade product but NoooOOooo all the devs spend their energy making 50 different weakly compatible distros that no one needs.

    I'll say it again, fuck linux. Fuck linux and its shitty community of elitist basement trolls.

    Twitches ,

    Maybe the mods wouldn't be an asshole to you if you didn't act like one yourself

    mods_are_assholes ,

    They started it, and I'm not backing down.

    veniasilente ,

    Are you ok?

    mods_are_assholes ,

    No one appreciates concern trolling

    HKayn ,
    @HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

    Just once I would love to open one of these threads without seeing people spam "USE LINOOX INSTEAD!"

    smileyhead ,
    • Switched to Linux years ago
    • Sometimes I need to help a friend or do professional work for someone else's komputer
    • I am annoyed about some stupid Windows thing I have to deal with
    • People tell me to switch to Linux
    HKayn ,
    @HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

    But Linux can do everything that Windows can!!!! :)))) /s

    BradleyUffner ,

    Well maybe stop suggesting that the solution to every tiny little cosmetic inconvenience is to completely switch operating systems to one that has notoriously flakey hardware support.

    thedeadwalking4242 ,

    Ah yes notoriously flakey hardware support. Like Microsoft doesn't used it to power their entire cloud platform. The hardware support argument is dying tbh used to be true about 20 years ago

    BradleyUffner ,

    Nope, still true of the last time I tried Linux last year. The sound system stopped working after every reboot, and clicking the distro's built-in update button completely trashed the system.

    But it doesn't have an AI button in the corner, so I guess that solves my problem!

    voodooattack ,

    Maybe try another distro?

    Also I’m curious. What distro were you testing with?

    BradleyUffner ,

    The last time I tested the waters it was with Debian, Mint, and Ubuntu. Each one had some kind of issue on my system that made me give up.

    I usually check in once a year or so to see if things have improved.

    unionagainstdhmo ,
    @unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar

    That's really weird. What kind of hardware have you got?

    BradleyUffner ,

    It's nothing crazy. All built within the last 3 years. I know the biggest issue is caused by having an Nvidia card. I can get the exact specs for you once I get home.

    unionagainstdhmo ,
    @unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar

    That is odd. I've been using NVIDIA and haven't really had any issues apart from just installing the proprietary driver through the package manager. People like to make out that NVIDIA is really bad on Linux, but lately it's been pretty good. My Quadro ~10 year old Quadro M2000 is still supported by the latest driver. Same cannot be said for more recent AMD APUs (looking at you Vega 10).

    Maybe next time you try Linux try Fedora since it has more recent drivers, etc. Just make sure you follow the instructions to install the NVIDIA proprietary drivers from RPMFusion. https://rpmfusion.org/Howto/NVIDIA

    Otherwise PopOS is apparently good since it bundles the NVIDIA driver with the iso. It's just been a bit buggy in my experience.

    voodooattack ,

    These are all Debian based. Debian is notorious for using old kernels and spotty hardware support. I had similar issues trying to install Ubuntu on a new-ish PC recently. Fedora worked like a charm though.

    I was tempted to try Nobara since it was a gaming pc but I was discouraged by opinions from the community telling me it was not exactly the best idea.

    Next time I might go for Bluefin though. It’s based on Fedora Silverblue (immutable OS) and I’ve heard great things about it. Apparently also has GPU drivers for NVIDIA baked-in, which I need.

    BradleyUffner ,

    Sounds interesting enough to give it another shot when I have some time.

    MonkeMischief ,

    If it helps, I've been running OpenSUSE Tumbleweed on my main 3D/gamedev production rig for a while. Yes, using NVIDIA too!

    It's a "rolling release", so it's cutting edge with supported hardware and all the software updates. It's surprisingly stable because of the automated testing they run through.

    I've had bad updates before, BUT, if you install your system using the BTRFS file system (default), you get something called Snapper that works similar to "Windows System Restore". You can just roll back to a previous snapshot and either re-update or wait until things are more stable.

    Nvidia has proprietary drivers for OpenSUSE as well, and since I've used those, I haven't had very many problems.

    The biggest issue I have is that my machine has trouble waking from suspend. It's a tricky one to nail down, from what I understand.

    Multiple monitors with different refresh rates is iffy, but I disabled "Kscreen" and have had no problems. (Don't worry about this but wanted to mention it just in case)

    KDE is pretty neat and I felt at home coming from Win10. Now I only dual boot into Win10 for occasional games. I'm not touching Win11 at all, so I'll migrate my games over once 10 is no longer viable to hang on to.

    Lastly, the community is really helpful and kind. They've helped me out a lot and I've learned a ton. Maybe I'm a nerd but I found "computing" to be a lot more fun on Linux. The biggest hazard being getting distracted cozying up your computer instead of whatever you signed on to do.

    Sorry for the long post, but hope you might find it useful. :)

    aStonedSanta ,

    Maybe suggest a solution instead of a fucking entire new OS. It’s like the “just move” people.

    MonkeMischief ,

    I think the problem here is that a majority of the power to change lies in Microsoft's hands. It's their OS, and there's not a whole ton we can do to halt their constant, greedy arrogance.

    So, switching to Linux isn't the easiest "solve all your problems" solution, but in the long run it simply removes a lot of stress of constantly wondering what stupidity Microsoft is going to force on you next because they "know better" and figuring out how to counter it with some hacky fix. (But also knowing no matter how hard you try, the thing is built to profit off of you.)

    If somehow we could make Windows feel like it was OURS instead of THEIRS again, I'm sure people would be all for it.

    Zetta ,

    I would say "notoriously flakey hardware support" is a false statement these days

    BradleyUffner ,

    Nope, still true of the last time I tried Linux last year. The sound system stopped working after every reboot, and clicking the distro's built-in update button completely trashed the system.

    But it doesn't have an AI button in the corner, so I guess that solves my problem!

    aStonedSanta ,

    Nope. And that’s the problem and why people like us tell the Linux fan boys to fuck off.

    Zetta ,

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Well in my personal experience it has been rock solid

    Hamartiogonic ,
    @Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz avatar

    I guess people downvoting you are thinking of Brother printers, AMD graphics cards and Intel WiFi cards. Sure, it’s great when you have the right hardware, but what if you don’t. I’ve banged my head against Optimus and Broadcom, until I learned to be extra picky when buying a laptop.

    Lucidlethargy ,
    @Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Lol holy persecution complex, batman... This is a thread shitting on Windows.

    TwilightVulpine ,

    You'd think but here we have your annoying ass throwing insults at someone you think uses Linux.

    uSpetzWon ,

    It happens because Linux users are like vegans. They can't shut up about it. And they don't realize that using Linux doesn't make them special or a member of some cool club nor does it mean that they have any friends.

    SparrowRanjitScaur ,

    I love Linux, but it's extremely annoying how many threads there are showing a mildly annoying and optional feature in Windows with 10 people replying "Use Linux!". As if Linux doesn't have a ridiculous number of UX problems itself.

    Fedizen ,

    Sorry about all the dorks here. You spotted a problem and proposed a solution and rather than propose better solutions people are just bitching about the suggested solution without offering better ideas.

    Lucidlethargy ,
    @Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Lol dude, OP proposed installing an entirely new operating system. The other solution from those "bitching' is to right click and toggle copilot to "off" in the task bar settings.

    muntedcrocodile ,
    @muntedcrocodile@lemmy.world avatar

    Im so glad i moved away from windows ages ago.

    jol ,

    The last 10 years if Windows have been so agressively anti-user that I can't comprehend anyone chooses Windows unless they need it for work.

    puppy ,

    And most are stuck in Windows at work because IT is incompetent dinosaurs.

    kalpol ,

    Two things keep Windows around. Office/Exchange and remote management. Nothing really works that well in any other ecosystem.

    JasonDJ ,

    As someone who works in IT…my Windows Desktop and Linux Desktop guys are pretty good. Linux desktop guys are chill as hell and got a legit greybeard to fall back on. My windows desktop guys are brilliant, masters of their crafts.

    Unfortunately my windows server team is stretched far too thin and my Linux server team are morons.

    But I digress.

    The reason why the actual UX sucks isn’t their fault, it’s because of the security team, who impose a lot of restrictions above and beyond what we need for regulatory reasons. But that’s what happens when their most technical guy is a perfectionist and their manager is more politician than technician.

    Trainguyrom ,

    IT guy here, the choice of what to ship on the corporate desktops/laptops is a lot more naunced than that.

    Are there users in the organization that use Excel heavily? Other windows-only software heavily? If the answer is yes then you're looking at complicating support instantly because now you have 2 separate fleets of workstations that each require different tooling to manage and you either have to have a helpdesk that can be trained to handle questions for both or have different teams to handle each which is more opportunities for helpdesk requests to be miscommunicated, lost, etc. and adds some time to the ticking process. You also have to decide how users are selected for which they get. If you leave it up to the users they'll all choose what they're used to and you'll just get a handful of weirdos which make the cost of allowing it likely higher than it's worth. But if you force it on people by team you run the risk of someone having dual roles or covering duties and being largely hamstrung when they can't use the windows software needed for the other role. Does this create a 2 tier system where users given the Linux workstations have less upward mobility? Or are you potentially creating future hassle where your Linux users will randomly have to come to IT to have their computer switched because they gained a duty that requires Windows software (which is a ton of lost productivity while they get things set how they like)

    You also have to now maintain 2 sets of management tooling since generally Active Directory and Linux tend to be a pain to mix. This also means 2 different streams of vulnerability tracking and patch tracking, and 2 different streams of testing if you hold back updates for testing before deployment. And 2 different attack surfaces to keep secure for audits and red teams.

    But let's suppose you find that absolutely everybody in your organization can be moved to Linux as nobody uses software that won't work on Linux natively. Awesome this is the best case scenario for Linux workstations in the office. What are the long term ramifications? Are you potentially limiting your options for vendors or contracts your organization can take on? Are some of your employees working at reduced productivity potential because they aren't using the best tool for the job?

    These are the considerations that have to be made, and argued politically for Linux to be deployed to user workstations in the office. Extremely similar conversations have historically had to happen (and continue to have to happen!) within IT departments to move things away from Windows Server. A bank I worked at just a year ago was so heavily invested in the Windows server ecosystem that they had Windows server in places it really shouldn't have been and the choice to use Windows Server actually was a hindrance.

    I think in the long run it has a chance. Linux has gotten so much better on the desktop in just the last 5 years, plus with the move to webapps across the board (not to mention kids in school right now learning on ipads and Chromebooks and never touching a Windows machine) I'm sure the decision will slowly get easier and easier, but right now, there's very limited opportunities to make Linux workstations happen in a big way in the corporate world, and I don't forsee that changing in the next 5 years

    MonkeMischief ,

    This. This is the nuanced intelligent discussion points we need to be talking about. Thanks for writing all this up.

    It's infuriating, but in the end, business tends to feed into and be run by other business. Microsoft is business. Their software is business.

    Business is a slow lumbering behemoth that does funny things like base mission-critical operations on a Windows95 machine because decades ago they committed to the tar-pit of a now-dead vendor, and nothing else can read those files. (I'm told this happens in science fields all the time)

    I mean hey, OS/2 and COBOL are still in use, connected to faded beige hardware using parallel ports. In 2024. People don't understand how change-averse businesses are! Lol

    We're also up against particularly targeted campaigns from tech giants since the beginning, to put their proprietary software in schools and taught in universities to eventually cement themselves in perpetuity, no matter how crappy they get, as "industry standard."

    Thankfully Linux is really big in server world already, but I hope in the future more organizations will be able to take more control over their own infrastructure. I understand why it's not feasible to "just switch" yet.

    jol ,

    Thank you for the detailed point of view. I definitely feel like I'm allowed to do pretty much anything at work while windows and mac users are much more managed by IT.

    accideath ,

    I‘m primarily a mac guy and I would love to ditch Windows on my PC for Linux. However, gaming support still isn’t quite where I‚d need it to be (HDR support especially).
    Also, I have a 20y/o film scanner and to use it with linux or macOS I‘d need to buy a third party scanner driver software for 100€ while on windows the original software (made for XP) still works…

    Owljfien ,

    Hdr should make some headway this year which is good, I have it enabled on my desktop environment, I'd love to see something along the lines of Windows auto Hdr though

    DoucheBagMcSwag , (edited )

    I use it for Sony Vegas essentially

    Edit: good talk. Thanks for solidifying the Linux user stereotype

    Balinares ,

    It's a trade-off that works for many. Not much you and I can do about it, even if it's frustrating.

    raspberriesareyummy ,

    Honestly, people who are still on windows at this point deserve this shit. 99% of corporate IT users are completely unwilling to stand up to their company's IT policies, no matter how disruptive those are to the workflow - and I am not even talking about operating system choice here.

    Since 95% and more of my colleagues in all prior jobs refused to stand up for the most basic necessities (such as a proper email program, or webmail access while NOT on a corporate device), then I don't give a fuck about them suffering from Windows while I happily left corporate IT for a service contract and work on my self-managed device.

    tabular ,
    @tabular@lemmy.world avatar

    More will get there eventually, they're just know different things or draw the line at a different point, or have other things going on in their life. With more free software options comes more people able to achive their computing self respect.

    raspberriesareyummy ,

    I am supportive when someone tries, but most people don't want to switch, yet expect "the tech person" in their family to fix their computer when they break it yet again.
    After fixing my parents' computer a couple of times and offering to show them how easy it is to use a Linux, which I could support them with, and hearing "nah, we're too old for [ something new ]" - 15 years(!) ago, I told them to not bother me again with their Windows problems, so they have to pay someone doing tech support for their home computers.

    If everyone did that - leave windows users dead in the water with the excellent /s Microsoft support, the number of windows users would quickly dwindle.

    Draedron ,

    Maybe stop telling people what OS to use? Even if I would have ever considered switching to linux, its users are so god damn annoying that I would never do so now

    raspberriesareyummy ,

    doing something against better judgement out of stubbornness harms no one but yourself. be my guest...

    Regrettable_incident ,
    @Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, if Linux wants to become an alternative OS for average folks, its users need to stop being so evangelical and obnoxious. I'm sure there are linux users who don't blow goats, they're just not on lemmy, or they're keeping quiet.

    JairSterre ,

    Oh no I'm right here.

    Vast_Emptiness ,

    Me too brother.

    Huschke ,

    Same, friends. I don't care what operating system people use, as long as Valve keeps supporting Proton and making it possible for me to game and therefore stick with Linux.

    offspec ,

    As much as I want the user base to grow so companies feel obligated to support the platform, I don't really personally want to support many people re-learning how to use their computers

    quackers ,

    It's usually the loud minority you hear, as with anything.

    TwilightVulpine ,

    I'm sorry but that makes no sense. However much you may think Linux users are annoying, marketing and word of mouth are what drive popular choices. If nobody ever brings up something, then average folks will never even know it exists.

    HKayn ,
    @HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

    And you people are doing a great job driving people away from Linux.

    dreamer ,

    Stop. They just don't get it.

    Trainguyrom ,

    That was literally how Apple became as big as it is. They created an ecosystem that encourages evangelism and outs people's personal choices (green bubble vs blue bubble for example) while also making it intentionally difficult to mix and match outside of the ecosystem. Obviously it's not a 1:1 comparison but it's an example of a successful competitor to the market leader and how it keeps itself relevant.

    summerof69 ,

    Linux is a bunch of code. It doesn't want anything.

    tabular ,
    @tabular@lemmy.world avatar

    Maybe stop telling people what comment to post? Even if I would have ever considered posting something else, this reply is so god damn annoying that I'm going to post a linux comment now.

    summerof69 ,

    I would never do so now

    Oh no... We'll never recover from this. In Russian we say: "назло маме отморожу уши". In English that translates to "to spite my mom, I'll freeze my ears off." This expression is used to describe a situation where someone does something harmful or foolish to themselves in an attempt to rebel against or annoy someone else, despite the action being against their own best interests.

    captain_aggravated ,
    @captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

    In 'Murucan we say "He'd cut off his nose to spite his face."

    JackGreenEarth ,
    @JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee avatar

    In English too.

    tabular ,
    @tabular@lemmy.world avatar

    Of course Linux users are annoying, who isn't sometimes? Promoting this self-own mindset isn't good for you or other users. Is good for Microsoft however..

    MacNCheezus , (edited )
    @MacNCheezus@lemmy.today avatar

    You can just turn that off. You know that, right?

    EDIT: also, the icon doesn't show up in the position the OP's screenshot shows it, at least not in my experience. It showed up right next to the start button for me, but you CAN move it around the taskbar if you want.

    OsrsNeedsF2P ,

    Windows has overtaken Linux in the "requires customization" department

    theonyltruemupf ,

    Honestly, stock KDE is pretty nice, i barely change a thing and feel right at home.

    puppy , (edited )

    I add custom themes for everything and then come back to Breeze after a week because it's the most consistent and usable.

    RoyaltyInTraining ,
    @RoyaltyInTraining@lemmy.world avatar

    I spent hours the other day uninstalling adware from my laptop after reinstalling windows on it. It's ridiculous.

    Contend6248 ,

    See you next update 🎉

    Lucidlethargy ,
    @Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Actually, those of us who hid it the first time it appeared didn't see this change. It's been disabled the whole time.

    Engywuck ,

    Switch to Linux!

    As a Linux user myself, let me tell you that telling people what they should/must do this is how you make people plainly ignore you and think you're just an annoying person.

    People will keep using what works for them, be it Windows/Linux/MacOS even if with minor inconveniences. Same goes for browsers/services/etc...

    AVincentInSpace ,

    "Microsoft continually makes their OS worse, but every time they do, Linux users come into the comment section telling me I should switch, so I'm not going to."

    dependencyinjection ,

    The thing is, is that it really doesn’t affect people in the way you guys seem to imagine.

    I’ve used Linux, MacOS, and Windows. Currently use Windows for work as a C# . net, SQL / GraphQL, and React TypeScript developer and although I was shocked they’re all pro windows, coming from MacOS. Once you get used to it you don’t really notice the shit stuff as you just do what you’re doing.

    I would still rate my experiences in this order though: MacOS, Linux, Windows. Best to worst, but like I said even though in now use the worst in my opinion it really doesn’t have much of an impact. Plus if I were to use Linux I’d need to geek out and waste so much time configuring it and I’m past that stage.

    BananaTrifleViolin ,

    I work in healthcate and use windows, at work and at home if I need to do work related stuff. I don't mind windows at work as it's been configured for the purpose and all the shitty bits are switched off - something Microsoft let's it's business users do. It's a decent operating system when it's set up to do what it needs to do, and I'm very familiar with it from using it since Windows 95.

    I used to use windows at home and had Linux for occasional interest. But in the last few years I've moved away from windows and now I'm on Linux as my main driver on multiple devices.

    For home users Windows is getting pretty shitty - it steals data all the time with numerous privacy settings you have to set to try and stop it, it tries to force you ads, it tries to force you to use its Web browser, it bundles lots of sponsored apps and when it does a big update it resets alot of your choices on privacy plus reinstalls removed bundle apps. It also throws new "features" at you which take up resources and impact privacy. Like Xbox gaming - I didn't ask for it, I don't want it, stop installing it every year and stop forcing an overlay on my own games.

    It's really a chore to use windows now; it feels like a constant battle to make sure it's not intruding on your data and privacy or showing you ads. I now use windows as the exception when there is a specific game that doesn't work in Linux. The rest of the time I boot into Linux, or use a separate work provided Windows device for home working.

    I know it's probably a case of "who asked" but I guess I just mean I get that windows can be decent for work related stuff (or necessary) but when it comes to personal stuff it's a bit of a nightmare. And I guess it also comes down to whether the privacy invasion and advertising bothers users. Bothers me a lot, but some people don't seem to care how the customer has become the product.

    MonkeMischief ,

    I know it's probably a case of "who asked"

    No, no. You're welcome here too and your experience is really helpful to share, and also helps to dispell this idea that all Linux users are basement geeks pushing a software cult LOL.

    I'm the same way, right there with you. I loved classic Windows for decades.
    My real last straw was when I was helping my sister with a reinstall and discovered firsthand how pushy they were being with forcing a Microsoft Account.

    "Oh no problem, you just have to disable WiFi completely via the switch, otherwise it'll complain that you need an internet connection, so then you need to try three times unsuccessfully on purpose and THEN it'll let you make a local account."

    "Ok they don't do that anymore, now you need to use a keyboard shortcut to open a CMD prompt, disable a service..."

    It's completely blunt anymore how Microsoft feels about customers: They think we're stupid cattle they've been raising since the 90's to "click OK" and make accounts for anything they want. I wish they weren't so right...

    Since then, I found terminal stuff to actually be fun and at least Linux feels like it's MY machine, not like I paid $100+ for a license key to rent their software that always begs me for more and rats on me at every turn.

    But yeah, "just switch" isn't helping anyone. We need to guide and support more people into it

    fishos ,
    @fishos@lemmy.world avatar

    Most people don't care because most of your problems are all privacy related. And that's what Linux people don't seem to get. They rant and rave about how much better Linux is.... for privacy. But the average Joe doesn't know or care that data is being collected and for the most part it doesn't affect them. It's just some Boogeyman being thrown at them. What they care about is ease of use and convience. They don't dig into those details because, for the most part, they're not even aware.

    When Linux people say it's a "better experience", they largely mean detailed customization and more privacy.

    When Windows people say it's a "better experience", they mostly mean that it's the same relatively easy to use experience on every device and it Just Works®.

    They're both right. But each side argues their side of the conversation not seeing that the other side has a perfectly justified use case for theirs. It's like arguing that everyone should drive a van and not understanding why someone might not want one.

    tabular ,
    @tabular@lemmy.world avatar

    Ask most people if they're okay with the government installing cameras/microphones in their own home. If someone says they're sincerely okay with that then hopefully we can agree there is a difference between having a preference and not understanding what is in their own best interests. I draw the line further; the same applies for privacy of your own computing.

    TheFonz ,

    Get AutoCAD on Linux and I'm there buddy. Some of us need to work.

    Zetta ,

    True, the biggest sore points of Linux is Windows software support. This probably won't work for you because you seem to use AutoCAD for work, but for me I was able to just find alternatives to programs that were not available anymore when I switched to Linux.

    TheFonz ,

    For sure. I would love to ditch Autocad, but that would require me convincing my entire industry. I hate AutoCAD.

    unionagainstdhmo ,
    @unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar

    Industry Standard software is just a fancy way of saying "Monopoly"

    TheFonz ,

    Sure, but it's also not easy to pivot an entire workforce to a new software platform. I work in architecture and the industry on a whole runs on the smallest possible margins and is managed by boomers that can barely mark up a pdf.

    MonkeMischief ,

    ...that can barely mark up a pdf.

    This seems to suggest they can download, locate, possibly extract, and then open one.

    I'm genuinely awe struck. Yours are practically self-reliant compared to ours! :(

    ChaoticNeutralCzech ,

    It's OK if it's FOSS. Imagine if Adobe Acrobat was FOSS and PDF was an open standard - it would have double the features and 10 times less suck.

    unionagainstdhmo ,
    @unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar

    PDFs have been an open standard since 2008.

    refurbishedrefurbisher ,

    Autodesk is the only entity who would be able to do that, due to the code being proprietary.

    Not impossible to happen, though. Autodesk already has Maya available for Linux.

    Obviously there are alternatives like FreeCAD, but alternatives aren't always an option.

    Also, while AutoCAD might not work right now, WINE is getting better rapidly, and, while not guaranteed, it (along with Adobe programs) could theoretically work in the future without them needing to port the software. Of course, the companies porting the software would be the preferred solution here.

    I'm personally not a fan of relying on proprietary technology for work, but most people are not in control of what their boss says they have to use, and the concept of proprietary "industry standards" continues to be a thing, partly due to lobbying and giving free copies to educators (Autodesk. Adobe, Apple, Google, and Microsoft are all very guilty of this). Unfortunately, I don't see that changing soon.

    TheFonz ,

    I'm curious what their reason for porting Maya was? That's really interesting.

    refurbishedrefurbisher ,

    Likely because of the use of Linux (and historically UNIX with SGI workstations) in Hollywood for CG artists.

    Alborlin ,

    Hell forget about AutoCAD, what about word and EXCEL. now you and Linux dudebros will tell me there are alternatives on Linux like libre office and what not. To them I say this

    1. Make a document in libreoffice , try to save it as docx and see what says libreoffice, or make a doc in word and adjust formatting, try to open same doc in libre office and see what shit show it becomes
    2. Hand down no body can beat ms excel, on multiple platforms, the versality is not just complex formulas but functions like xlookup, index match , combined with VBA scripting with formulas that can low-key fight python , power tables are unparalleled, if you can replicate these without A SINGLE COMMAND line input for dumb users like us
      That would the win.
    refurbishedrefurbisher ,

    1. Blame Microsoft for not conforming to their own standard. There's a reason the EU uses ODF instead of the mess that is OOXML. Different versions of MS Office aren't even fully compatible with each other. Also nowadays, you can use Office 365 in a web browser. For desktop, there is LibreOffice and OnlyOffice, which have okay compatibility. MS Office can also open ODF files, as is legally mandated by the EU, since it would be considered anticompetative if they didn't.

    2. I don't use those functions of Excel, so I can't comment. Also to be clear, are you asking if you can program without a Terminal? I'm not even sure what the question is. VBA is a proprietary Microsoft-specific scripting language, so of course there won't be native support for that in non-Windows OSs, although there might be a reverse engineering effort I'm not familiar with.

    Blaming Linux for a problem that Microsoft caused and won't solve due to anticompetative practices is just dumb. Microsoft basically invented the concept of Embrace, Extend, extinguish, and Office is a prime example of that.

    Engywuck , (edited )

    People don't switch just because of some minor inconvenience (as if Linux didn't have any...) and outside of Lemmy/the Fediverse echo chamber very few people are concerned about privacy. They will switch (maybe) if the new tool works better for them than thge previous one. Otherwise, why should they bother? Linux is my primary OS since many years, but it isn't everybody's cup of tea.

    whynotzoidberg ,

    This echo chamber gets LOUD, too!

    Contend6248 ,

    I for one enjoy salty Microsoft tears, just makes me feel better with my choice completely ditching them.

    Keep 'em coming.

    AVincentInSpace ,

    Literally what? I'm a Linux user bro

    Contend6248 ,

    It wasn't directed to you, it is directed to people constantly crying about their choice

    kronarbob ,

    Maybe they are not Linux users, maybe they are Microsoft employees trying to keep you on Windows by making Linux users look obnoxious.

    index ,

    I'm gonna keep eating unhealthy food in large quantities, nobody should tell me what to do or what works for me...

    Engywuck , (edited )

    Hey, just keep doing whatever you want. Just rest assured that virtually everybody is going to plainly and silently ignore you.

    Drummyralf ,

    Exactly. As a musician many paid music plugins simply don't work on Linux because of all the installers attached to them. Also, I design with the Adobe suite for my work, also not viable on Linux (I believe?). I would love to use Linux, but for my needs it's simply a no go.This is what annoys me about all the "just use linux" comments. There are usecases where it's simply not an option.

    refurbishedrefurbisher ,

    I've gotten every single Windows VST I've used working on Linux with WINE. Some of them require extra work (Serum and anything needing Native Access specifically), but they still work.

    I've also tried both Ableton and FL Studio in WINE, and they both work fine as well.

    Adobe suite is something I don't have experience with, though.

    GoOnASteamTrain ,

    Ableton working in Wine you say...? Thank you for sharing, as that would be excellent to try! :)

    refurbishedrefurbisher ,

    Yeah. I'd still recommend Ableton users try out Bitwig, though, regardless of OS. It's a fantastic DAW that also happens to have native Linux support.

    But yeah, Ableton should work fine with WINE, along with your VSTs. Make sure you use WINEASIO along with JACK. Pipewire works, but I've notoced that it eats up more resources than just using JACK directly, similar to using ASIO in Windows.

    GoOnASteamTrain ,

    That's awesome! Thank you for the rundown, I'll save this comment for the day that I get to making the jump :) It might be a while until I can, but it would be nice to jump back over to the comfortable Linux environment again :)

    refurbishedrefurbisher ,

    No problem. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

    Drummyralf ,

    Hmm interesting. I'm a Cubase user with many steinberg plugins and some Arturia stuff. When I googled it, I didn't seem to find much information about Linux support. But maybe I should give it a try. Thanks for sharing!

    refurbishedrefurbisher ,

    Can't hurt! Might run into a speedbump or two where you have to do a DLL override or something, but you might get lucky and not have to do anything.

    I haven't tried Cubase, though.

    GoOnASteamTrain , (edited )

    Agreed, not just plugins its also Ableton Live for me! There is nothing that scratches that for me, bitwig does look promising eventually though. :)

    Then on top of that wanting to develop games without learning another game engine (I'm far into a game, and can't change engine without starting again)

    And I wanna play Baldurs Gate 3 again dammit! (To be fair I think that might work and haven't looked) :) .

    I used Linux for 5 years and loved it, have a pi and a degoogled Foss phone as much as possible. I am an ally to it all, but have usecases which dictate Windows ... I think it's not unreasonable to want something to get better without binning 70℅ of why I use my computer. :)

    Edit: I just learned this thread, wine might work with Ableton, this is great news :)

    ExLisper ,

    Wow, I have no idea what copilot is and why would you want to hide the desktop. It used to be you had 'show desktop' button on the task bar. I guess I've been happily using Linux for too long.

    aulin ,

    I was equally confused about what people meant with hide the desktop. I assume they meant show the desktop.

    learningduck ,

    Just press windows+d bro.

    I forgot that the button exists.

    Evotech ,

    Win+d also redirects to copilot

    qevlarr ,
    @qevlarr@lemmy.world avatar

    I hope that's a joke or else I'm gonna be so mad

    PlutoniumAcid ,
    @PlutoniumAcid@lemmy.world avatar

    Nah, obviously you launch Copilot with Ctrl+C.

    JonEFive ,

    So you're just out here trying to start a riot, eh?

    Plopp ,

    No you do that with Win+R.

    konalt ,
    @konalt@lemmy.world avatar

    Obviously it's right mouse button for quick access

    captain_aggravated ,
    @captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

    and not Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Win+T

    Rubanski ,

    Or Win+m

    mods_are_assholes ,

    I purposefully tear every windows key of my keyboards with a pair of needlenose the moment I unbox them.

    Thankfully my daily driver keyboard is too old to have one.

    PeriodicallyPedantic ,

    Typical capitalist race to the bottom to appease investors with short term decision making

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